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Comment by omnee | Hacker News Reader

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously not. The difference is like going from being short sighted but able to complete daily activites with some difficulty, to wearing glasses that makes everything crystal clear and easy.

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Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to.

It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly sweet like cosmic crisp apples, sumo mandarins, or cotton candy grapes.

Part of it is that the plants have been optimized for durability in transport, harvesting etc not just flavor. Farmers Markets here in the US or smaller chains are more likely to have the better produce but not guaranteed depending on where you are.

Turns out you can measure the sweetness of an orange using an infrared light and camera.

Then you can sort all the oranges by sweetness, and sell the sweet ones to one place and the pretty ones to another.

Where the consumer only sees the looks in the shop, why send that country the nice tasting ones?

This sounds like a business opportunity. Handheld produce analyzers you bring to the store/farmer's market/etc.

Out of season stuff is usually imported from Mexico or South America. I'm guessing the long distance transport conditions may change the taste of the produce?

Yes, everything from parts of the fruit not rippening (Sometimes not at all), weakening of flavours, or visually ripe fruit that's really not

Having scaled the latitudes of Europe, I will say that your generalisation is moot.

Try an aubergine in Germany, and then try one in Sicily. The difference is stark.

My point of reference is the same latitude as Moscow for what it’s worth and yet the food I get here in Southern California falls short. Sicily would be a dream in comparison.

Very true but how many people would pay the extra cost for vegetables outside the agricultural industrial complex? Most people want cheap and their fruits and vegetables year round, even if they are out of season. There is a major taste difference just between canned vegetables vs frozen.

My biggest annoyance is ordering a BLT in August and getting a green artificially ripened tomato even though ripe and flavorful ones can be found everywhere. You would think that CSAs would be a lot more popular and successful then they are but the reason (imo) is that most people really don't want to cook and even if they do, they don't want to do that every day so the CSA shares end up overwhelming them with fresh supplies that get given away or thrown out instead.

You think that it's cheaper for some reason to get it from the "complex", while it is very obviously not so.

The logistics between growers to distributors to store and customers add a ton of cost to your food. In the order of 200%.

The reliance on external food sources for many ingredients exacerbates this even more.

Many business models in other countries are based on lowering logistics, doing basically grower-to-customer directly and evading all the middlemen. No refrigeration, better quality, cheaper food.

Our neighbor told this story about her mom. They are both French, but the daughter lives in the Netherlands for about a decade. The mom lives in France.

The mom came to visit her daughter during COVID and while eating something bought from the local supermarket, she noticed that the food has a very weak taste if any at all. COVID was said to impact one's sense of taste or smell. So, upon returning to France, she went to take a test and... she didn't have COVID. In fact was completely healthy :)

I went to France last summer. And... truth be told, I don't taste the difference between Dutch vegetables and French vegetables. To me they are both fine. The bread on the other hand is on a completely different level.

Anyways. I don't really know what may be causing these perceived differences in taste. But, I have a theory that it's a learned thing. Maybe our sensors adapt to a particular food and then a very small change overall can affect them in a major way?

Oo can you share the restaurants name?

If you can find a good family-run Vietnamese Phở restaurant, try it out. The ones around here serve very fresh food, and I specifically asked the wife where she got the fresh herbs, and she said that grandma grows them in her backyard. There are spearmint, cilantro, jalapeños, and bean sprouts. They are always so very consistent and fresh and very healthy plants. There is absolutely no comparison to this sort of restaurant. The others can serve food-service slop, and somehow, Vietnamese cooks' main ingredient is love.

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