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Comment by mordnis | Hacker News Reader

Can you give a different example? I also am of the opinion that I do not care for validation. The problem with the example you gave is that I just wouldn't whine about the ticket because it was my mistake.

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So you’re saying that you would have exactly the same opinion of the parking attendant whether they said the first or the second option? Of course it’s more your fault than it is the attendants, but we can still treat each other with care.

I wouldn't be asking for an exception in the first place. Not in that circumstance or anything even remotely like it. Dead serious. Growing up, my mother was constantly trying to sweet talk exceptions out of people, and it usually worked, but I found this behavior to be morally reprehensible and not being this sort of person became a central pillar of my personality. I have similarly grown cold and indifferent to anybody who tries it on me.

Some people in this thread seem to believe that all people are alike and all respond in the same way to corporate propaganda, false pleasantries, etc. This isn't the case. You're looking at a forest but have lost sight of the trees.

Exactly what I was trying to say. The example just doesn't click with me, because I would not put myself in such a situation. And if I did for some reason I actually think the rude response would be more appropriate, it might make me think about my irresponsible behavior and/or dirty manipulation I tried on the attendant.

Why would I have an opinion of the parking attendant at all? They're a a cog in the machine. If I thought about their phrasing at all, I'd assume they had a bad night, or not. Anyway I lost the ticket, it's my problem.

I read HN for absolutely wild comments like this one. To be clear, I think you’re being completely honest here. It’s just fascinating seeing someone with such an unusual thought process.

GP here, same for me. This whole comment section is FUBAR.

Personally I see the "validation" as not so much trying to validate the person's feelings, but rather establishing that I understand and agree with their goals. Otherwise any disagreement with them comes across as hostility and they're unlikely to listen.

Though if I see no common ground then I won't agree with them just to placate them, it has to be genuine.

Tbf I am Dutch, and also drunk. But yeah, if I lost the ticket I'd assume I was going to have to pay the full rate, period.

I'd try to speak to someone because who knows, but that's all.

And there's someone on the other side who is just like me but with a shitty job, and they get to tell me I have to pay full rate. I don't really care how polite they go about it.

> don't really care how polite they go about it.

Does that apply to everybody or just customer service people?

How about your coworker, boss, teacher, spouse, children, parents? Say you make a mistake and they correct you by saying "Not like that, you fuckhead". That's no different to you than "Oh, oops, I think it's this way."?

Even a customer service person, if they correct you the first way, you don't mind?

A minimum wage worker (probably the other side of the ticket machine call) gets a lot of leeway, a well paid manager needs to do better.

I don't care that much about phrasing, not as much as others do.

> who is just like me but with a shitty job

This is funny because now you're making a point of being empathetic to the other party, while claiming their (lack of) empathy doesn't affect you.

What's funny about having empathy for people who don't express empathy outwardly? Or maybe don't even have it internally either?

I thought that was the whole deal about empathy. If it wasn't, then it's just being kind to the people you like, but with extra steps.

It can be both honest and naive

I was nodding the whole time until I got to this comment. This is the one that is unusual to me, because it would be my fault and the person informing me is just doing their job; well or not. They have no opinion about me nor should I of them. The whole transaction would be effortless if not for having emotions mixed in, I think those are best saved for personal relationships.

Same thoughts here.

I would probably agree with the attendant if they told me "You were stupid for losing your ticket." I wouldn't think I was actually stupid, but being responsible for my actions is important to me.

Also, being adhd Ive accepted the bone-headed things I do/lose. It also wouldn't be a shock to find the parking ticket in the freezer a week later.

Their view of the attendant as a cog in the machine appears to be a justification for their "learned helplessness" to situations. They've internalized that certain policies they come into contact with in the world are non-negotiable and to attempt to negotiate is shouting into the void, thus a waste of energy.

To them, it's irrelevant whether the helplessness is real or not. So they don't bother to take a moment to poke at the attendant's capacity for resolving the situation to their advantage.

I wouldn't say that its an unusual view, but it may indicate a deep desire for efficiency (don't argue, simply pay and be on ones way), financial privilege (an extra $20 charge is no big deal), or could be symptoms of deeper issues relating to self-worth (I am not worthy to ask for a break).

Germans have entered the chat. The attendant telling you it's your fault is such a classic normal thing to happen in Germany. No one will ever bat an eye. And if you notice that thr attendant could have been a little softer, they'll repeat confused, "but it's your fault."

Germans in my opinion have perfected the art of no empathy for mistakes.

That's a wild comment? I find the reverse to be wild. It would never even occur to me to care what comment the attendant would give me about the ticket. You would actually pay attention to what he said?

I would care about just one thing: Will he reduce my ticket or not. The rest of his words are empty and meaningless.

And for the record ads don't work on me, mostly because I almost never hear an ad for something I might actually buy, the few times they are relevant the product is too expensive so instead I buy the same thing but without a brand name. (So I guess thanks for giving me the idea of a new product I might like?)

This is, generally, the sanest opinion and feelings one can have about the matter.

Are you perhaps German or Dutch or similar? This seems like a cultural difference (and part of the reason why foreigners always seem to rate such places as rude). I can easily see a parking attendant here in Berlin saying such a thing unironically (or even with a negative meaning!)

I think it's a pretty immature and childish thing to get upset at the attendant in any case. Unacceptable behavior from adults, honestly.

They're doing their job same as I would in their place. Nothing either of us can do, and they really have no involvement in the first place. Blaming the attendant is what you'd do if you weren't emotionally mature enough to accept your own mistakes.

There’s a difference between blaming them and being a little annoyed at their callous, semi-aggressive response.

No one likes being called stupid. It’s unpleasant and completely unnecessary. I try to not spend time with people like that.

No one is blaming the attendant. People are reacting (or not, as some claim) to their attitude.

The side issue of blame can be taken out with a different example: You stub your toe. A person sees. Suppose that they either wince in sympathy, or laugh derisively.

Do you feel the same about that person either way? For avoidance of doubt: Are there any situations in which your future behaviour towards them would depend on which of these 2 reactions they gave?

I'm saying I cannot imagine such a situation. But lets say I didn't know the rules and I came to the attendant asking what to do because I lost a ticket. I would prefer just "You have to pay for the whole day", but if I had to choose between a rude attendant and an overly friendly attendant, I cannot say I have a preference. The first one is lashing out at me unnecessarily (maybe not so actually if the information is clearly available without asking him), the second one is trying to empathize with me even though I just want to solve my problem.

you make a mistake at work and boss says

"You did x and fucked up the server.Don't do that again you dumbfuck"

"Shit happens. Make x a learning experience."

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