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Comment by yard2010 | Hacker News Reader

yard2010

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The reality is more nuanced.

Take China for example. People do criticize the government online all the time. It's just that criticism magically disappears before it reaches critical mass. Generally China does not throw people (Han Chinese, minorities are different) into gulag for posting against the government. They are just constantly censoring and shaping the discussion. Only after they can't contain something they step up. Even then, there is often a phone call first. They try to be efficient.

People have rebel fantasy that US tuns into fascist dictatorship. What really happens is that US turns into illiberal democracy like Hungary. There is constant headwind going against the government or voicing your opinion, you don't get fair treatment and opportunities. Most people just stop resisting when it's somewhat inconvenient. You can still post anything but it is drowned by algorithms.

Genuinely curious: what do you see as the distinction between an illiberal democracy and a fascist dictatorship?

And if there is a significant difference, what stops one becoming the other?

Elections aren't rigged but everything else is rigged, like media is controlled by government or opposition candidates are jailed.

In Russia the elections actually are rigged and China doesn't have elections so they are both dictatorships.

Granted the line between them is fuzzy so it's more helpful to think of it as a spectrum.

I refer to what political scientists write about the subject.

Illiberal democracy (aka electoral authoritarianism, competitive authoritarianism, or soft authoritarianism) is a system with democratic institutions that don't work properly. Opposition can still win but it's not a fair game.

>And if there is a significant difference, what stops one becoming the other?

People. For example, Ukraine was illiberal democracy and Orange Revolution 2004 changed that. Poland was slipping badly but 2023 Polish protests changed things.

Putin started with illiberal democracy and slipped into pure authoritarian eventually, because Russians can't get their shit together.

Situation in Poland wasn't magically fixed by one election. Institutions take years to gain authority. Constitutional court is still a joke, judiciary is split into two warring worlds. Additionally supposedly centrist coalition is running to the right for short-term electoral purposes. (completely ignoring that this run itself shifts public opinion to the right).

People "falling" out of helicopters.

Unless you have a Real Madrid or Michael Jordan tattoo

Which parts would that be? Curious about the standard applied here.

"Other places are 10x worse, you should be grateful to just eat 1 shovel of dirt / week instead of 10"

I mean critics of the Trump administration are still thrown in a max security prison and subjected to forced labor. I get that there isn't a sign on the front calling it a gulag but that distinction isn't particularly important to the people being brutally punished for using their first amendment rights.

Can you provide a single example of someone getting thrown into a maximum-security prison and subjected to forced labor solely for criticizing the Trump administration?

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/11/nx-s1-5361208/mahmoud-khalil-...

> "If Mahmoud can be targeted in this way, simply for speaking out for Palestinians and exercising his constitutionally protected right to free speech, this can happen to anyone over any issue the Trump administration dislikes," said Marc Van Der Hout, one of Khalil's attorneys.

He's currently in Louisiana prison it says which means yes, he's subject to forced prison labor.

https://www.laaclu.org/en/press-releases/aclu-report-finds-i...

He’s not been charged with a crime. He’s not being removed from the country for criticizing Donald Trump. He’s in detention pending removal, which is a civil proceeding, not a criminal one. And he’s certainly not doing any labor there. Not every detention facility in Louisiana is a federal prison for criminals.

Ah, it's a civil gulag not a criminal gulag.

What? So this is freedom of speech? Are you kidding me? As soon as you can't talk about one thing, your whole freedom is *gone*

What about that visiting french scientist that got detained at the border for having criticized Trump on twitter? Is that enough for you to admit your country has a problem or shall we wait until there are literal American gulags? If so, see what's going on in El Salvador.

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