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Comment by TrapLord_Rhodo | Hacker News Reader

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If an interest free loan at a time when Tesla couldn’t get a bank to loan them breakfast is not a subsidy then you also agree that none of the banks received any sort of government support either right?

Because even despite many of the companies failing, the govt made a profit on TARP.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/space-explor...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/e... | https://archive.is/2025.04.06-135244/https://www.washingtonp...

https://freebeacon.com/issues/emails-epa-rushed-to-resolve-t...

“Who is John Galt?” /s He is Schrödinger's Entrepreneur: a self made man when the ego and cult calls for it, but a scrappy startup founder just trying to save the world and get to Mars when desperate for government or Capital market support and intervention.

Most of those subs linked are from direct negotations from the state, and they are in the form of tax incentives, not cash in account.

How are you going to use that against a company that nevada agreed to give them X amount of tax incentives over a year if they build a giga factory there?

Using that as a justification that "tesla only lives because of tax payer money" is ridiculous.

Also, poking around the SpaceX data just seems entirely false too. The biggest 'loan' of $98M to spaceX for "Missle technology development". And when you follow the authorizations it was just a firm fixed price contract.

I am not here to talk you out of your mental model around the cult of Elon. His companies have received almost $40B in various forms of government support, those are the facts. He is a skilled operator, able to whip teams of engineers to success and distort reality persuasively to customers and investors alike, but his ventures would not have survived without the government support he’s received.

Let's not forget he SUED to get SpaceX contracts from the big defense contractors. The GAO was the one who upheld the protest due to the vast price disperities.

"but his ventures would not have survived without the government support he’s received."

Including firm fixed price contracts the company has won from the government for providing essential services is not a good argument. SpaceX's main customer is governments... thats how rocket companies work.

Comparing Tesla’s support to other industries reveals a double standard. The fossil fuel industry has received trillions in subsidies globally over decades (e.g., IMF estimates $5.9T in 2020 alone for fossil fuel subsidies). General Motors and Chrysler received $80B in bailouts during the 2008 financial crisis.

consumer tax credits benefit buyers, not Tesla directly, though they boost demand. Subsidies for infrastructure like Gigafactories are standard for large-scale industrial projects and not unique to Tesla.

It seems i can't be the one to talk you out of your mental model of hating elon.

Phone me when someone else lands an orbital class rocket or offers a cheaper ton to LEO. Until then you're complaining about the lowest bidder. And you're going to have a hard time convincing me that the lowest bidder is doing anything but saving their customers money on a service they were already intent on purchasing, and had previously been spending 2x - 10x for: https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/753q6s/economic_comp...

I don’t have to convince you. The only people who matter are government decisionmakers who are unwilling to be held hostage by him. It doesn’t matter how good you are if you can’t be trusted. The premium you pay a non SpaceX launch provider is so that the rug isn’t pulled on you. Do you want to go to space when you want? Or only when he says you can? Cheaper is not always better.

Friend, when your argument evaporates in the presence of the financial numbers and you revert to character assassination, you might be identifying yourself among the untrustworthy. Bad faith arguments really undermine any trust I could build for you through this media.

> The premium you pay a non SpaceX launch provider is so that the rug isn’t pulled on you. Cheaper is not always better.

Again, when one of them manages to land an orbital class rocket, call me. Competition would be great.

He assassinated his own character, my statements are simply observations of how he did it and what’s left of it. My apologies we see character and who you can trust differently.

https://electrek.co/2025/04/10/cracks-are-forming-in-elon-mu...

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-elon-musk-is-spreading-...

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk...

https://elonmusk.today/

You are doing humanity no favors arguing about it like this.

I expect the next administration will switch SpaceX to cost-plus. Musk may be banking on reaping huge profit margins on those fixed price deals. Well that ain't gonna happen. Elections have consequences.

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