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Comment by ninetyninenine | Hacker News Reader

>We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis,

This is a nice way to put it.

Anticipate a world within your life time where China is the dominant economic, technological, military and cultural super power.

Anticipate jealousy, anticipate fear, but know that as Americans who have been top dog for decades there is nothing wrong with not being the best.

Additionally anticipate a changing world view less focused on the view that freedom and democracy as the only possible way to lead and anticipate that despite the fact that China is a communist country and centrally controlled they don't want conflict and they don't want total war.

China and the US are not perfect. The US needs to accept this fact and it needs to accept that another is about to take it's place as the top dog.

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> cultural super power

My impression is that Chinese culture has very little appeal elsewhere (at least in the West). They can't seem to be able to (or care to) package it in an appealing way. Sure, they're being catered to in films and video games but I see very little organic interest in Chinese culture, especially compared to Japanese or Korean culture.

It's true.

It's changing though. Wu Kong Black myth and even the top grossing film of last year was chinese animation. See the comments under the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM. The film was apparently incredible.

The core culture of China is actually foundational to much of Asia. The stuff you see coming out of Japan and Korea is surface level aesthetics built on top of this foundation. You're probably thinking Nintendo, KPop and anime.

Once China makes the aesthetics just as good as other parts of Asia I can see China becoming a cultural power house. Even the mythology surrounding China historically in terms of say one thing like Wuxia is better than anything out of Korea, Japan or the west in my opinion.

Really in the end people are more attracted to the aesthetic presentation of everything. Japan does this really well while China has always been unskilled, crude and rough on the edges. But this is changing at a nearly breakneck pace.

Oh, I think they're already up there with the aesthetics, I just don't find the content appealing. I watched (on Netflix) some Chinese attempt at a Downton Abbey a few years ago, and the production value was through the roof, absolutely insane. But the actual writing was pretty vapid and it's still drenched in propaganda.

I've had similar experience with film. Just compare the stuff coming out of Hong Kong today with what came out during the 80's and 90's.

Comedy is another thing I don't see go on export any time soon...

The writing will improve too.

I actually don’t get what happened with Hong Kong. Stuff was good then it went bad. But in general it’s expected that stuff will be bad. Generally writing and story telling is the hardest to improve while production and special effects are easier.

The great story telling from China comes from its mythology and I feel China hasn’t yet found a method to depict this on screen without being too cheesy, fakeish or over the top.

I think this is why animation and video games work here temporarily. China will eventually get its act together.

If they're selling on historical and folklore how much is that really pushing culture? Is Modern China the same culture as pre-revolution China? Friends, Seinfeld, Sex and the City had actual influence on people on a portrayal of modern New York. What's the equivalent show that has worldwide audiences interested in modern Chinese life.

None. There’s no equivalent Chinese show. Just like how a while back there was no equivalent industry. It will get there. Follow the trendlines of all the industries and if it matches what happened with the entire manufacturing industry, solar industry, and various other industries it will eventually surpass the US. Right now it’s quickly becoming on par with a lot of stuff in the west. Eventually it will surpass the west.

But you also have to note there’s a shit ton of propaganda against China. I’m not even sure where it comes from given that we have freedom of press. you likely have no interest in the good stuff coming out of China likely because you don’t even know about it.

Think of it like this. You probably don’t think of BYD at all. Most Americans don’t. But to the rest of the world it’s a superior car to Tesla. And cheaper. It’s like Americans have some propaganda veil pulled over their eyes and I have no idea where it’s from. This absence of consideration of BYD is very similar to what Americans think of China. It’s just a very inaccurate perspective and full of holes.

Also a side note. Nobody inside China or Asia really gives a shit about Seinfeld, Sex and the city or friends. I love Seinfeld and friends but that's because I'm American. Outside of this culture those shows are just garbage. You need to look at the things with true world wide appeal across all cultures. Something like Avengers End game, which was an international phenomenon. (I know there's a lot of snobbish types who don't like it and I can understand why as it's not very sophisticated and it is a little too popular)

Anyway, China has yet to have something like Avengers End game. Or Star wars even. But out of all the countries in the world, it has the most chance of producing something on par with what America has done.

I wasn't making a point about blockbusters though. Star Wars would fail my criteria as well. It's not about money it's about influence. The stuff you listed is the antithesis of that, watered down for a global audience. I'm talking about the "I want to visit CityX" because I saw what it's like and that's my vibe.

It's not a matter of growing the industry because it's already orders of magnitude bigger then what it costs to accomplish.

No one in Asia wants to visit nyc because of friends, sienfeld or sex and the city. These shows to them are mostly raw garbage. The reason is because these shows are culturally focused. Its catered exclusively to the type of American humor and values that most people in Asia do not give two shits about.

They want to visit Hollywood because they want to see the technology that built these blockbusters because internationally everyone understands heroism, sacrifice and special effects. Additionally these movies aren’t watered down. The writing and the effects have gone through years of development to get to that point. It just doesn’t cater to your sensibilities. The term is snobbish.

The writing for Seinfeld and friends and sex and the city took years to get where they are. These aren’t inborn cultural talents. You can easily compare stories from past American movies to see how cheesy and stupid they are. It takes development for stories to come to where they are today and it’s a back and forth between the audience and writers. As writers write more stories audience members learn and become more sophisticated and twists and humor that worked in the past become cliche. Why do you think you’re too snobbish to appreciate something like avengers? You think someone in the 50s wouldn’t appreciate it? Fuck honestly if the whole mcu up till end game came out in the 50s that whole thing would win a Nobel peace prize.

China is 100% going through this learning process right now. The audiences sophistication and the writers as a result are growing at a breakneck pace. I think movies from China that might appeal to who you are is crouching tiger hidden dragon or Hero as these movies share the more universally appreciated parts of Chinese culture and since that is what you’re interested in, I recommend them to you.

You've completely missed the point. Crouching tiger/Hero are not modern chinese culture. I haven't even seen the shows I mentioned, but I also know if I mention New York overseas, that is what people think of it. They are known around the world. It's not about quality, it's not about blockbusters, it's about the raw influence of "what is New York". Are you suggesting that overseas, the lesson we should take on Chinese culture from Chinese media is that China is infested by demons, has no electricity and is a feudal system??

>but I also know if I mention New York overseas, that is what people think of it

They know of it for different reasons. It has nothing to do with the shows.

>It's not about quality, it's not about blockbusters,

Blockbusters are a form of quality. Just not your form form of quality. You prefer sex and the city.

> Are you suggesting that overseas, the lesson we should take on Chinese culture from Chinese media is that China is infested by demons, has no electricity and is a feudal system??

People know about NYC because it's just a famous city. It has nothing to do with some shows that nobody in Asia watches. I'm also not talking about any of China's cities as marketed by media. I'm talking about the idea of China itself.

The idea that America is a powerful country and that NYC is a great city is slowly dying. Dying because the reality of it is dying as well. It's a slow death one that may never finish in your lifetime but there's no denying that we see a lot of decline.

Cultural exports are how NYC became famous, has a city ever became famous without culture? I can't say anything about the quality of Sex and the City since like I said before I've never watched it. I have had it brought it up to me overseas, people like you that have watched it. I can think of a dozen countries that have made iconic scenes in media to spread their culture. I can't name a single scene of modern Chinese living. To the west, pre-revolution and post-revolution China are completely different. All your neighbors have managed to push their modern culture. US culture is on downtrend because they've stopped seeking common ground with their peers, they will deserve what's coming to them.

I also had the same thinking, when somehow my mother started watching Chinese TV shows. She first started with kdramas on Netflix, tried to watch a few Japense and didn't liked... then moved to Chinese dramas. And it seems, it's getting really popular here in Brazil. All anecdotical, but I know a few people that watch besides her.

Tencent has a streaming focused on international market called WeTV, there's also IQIYI. There's Viki too, that is from Rakuten - that is Japanese, but there's a ton of Chinese content there (which she also watches).

My nephew even learned a few words of mandarin (and Korean too) because she keep watching that all day.

Kdramas are really popular here, and don't think it's as popular as the US, my guess it's just the soap opera consumption Latin America was always huge, so it makes Asian dramas more palatable, as they are more soap opera style.

Now for music yeah, don't think Chinese music is that popular or will ever be compared to kpop.

China is not communist in anything but name. They are an authoritarian capitalist country with social policies.

Agreed. Authoritarian is what westerners don't like. They see it as an evil.

I see it as one side of a coin. The yin to a yang.

It is seemingly great to achieve societal progress and modern living conditions, but the individuality and freedom of the individual suffers.

Depends. Do you go out to protest and talk about social issues on the regular? If not and you live a normal life like most people, then you're generally not effected by this.

> Authoritarian is what westerners don't like. They see it as an evil.

Sadly, the recent election shows otherwise for a lot of Americans.

I always laugh a bit at comments like this. Trump is pompous and certainly admires authoritarians, but you Americans have no idea what a real authoritarian tyrant looks like.

It's weird that you want to compete, but ok, here's your gold in the suffering Olympics.

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