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Comment by Tade0 | Hacker News Reader

It used to be that elders were few and far between, as the population pyramid was, well, a pyramid.

The other day I joked in conversation that I raise my daughters to disrespect the elderly - particularly my generation in the future - as considering the fertility rates (worse than in Japan) in the region, there will be plenty of elderly compared to younger generations.

I'm only half joking really. My own parents are reaching the age at which they would use some help every now and then. I have two siblings, so it doesn't take huge individual effort from any of us.

Meanwhile I'm the only one there who has children and most likely that will remain the case. Should they feel any obligation to help my siblings once the time comes?

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You can teach them whatever you want, but the model of the world you give them is also what they will pass on to their kids.

"Family is a burden, and screw old people" doesn't seem that conducive to a good society.

I'm going more for "screw just old people". Nowhere in my parenting there's even a mention of family being a burden - well, the younger part at least.

Anyway, again, half-joking here - I'm not actively pursuing this approach, just not nudging them towards the traditional one.

I spent some years in Italy, where the younger generations are absolutely squeezed by the presence of a huge population of elderly. It went to such bizarre extremes where my one Italian friend not only doesn't own a home being in his 40s now, whereas both of his divorced parents each have their own properties, his salary is lower than his father's pension. Kids are of course out of the question.

My country is speedrunning this same scenario and the only thing preventing it from happening now is considerably lower life expectancy compared to Italy.

That's the same thing in France, where on average a retiree has a higher pension than a worker. Workers whose one third of gross salary goes to pensions, then at least another of net salary is paid for rent to live in a property often owned by the previous generation. It's very depressing environment to live in.

Every social norm will be exploited until it becomes a threat to existence. Right now the olds are exploiting their protected status to outright exterminate the younger generations. I will be down voted because the truth is too bitter for most to swallow. This happens close to all of us and isn't some bogeyman foreign/domestic politician or other convenient scapegoat.

I believe some resentment towards the elderly is unavoidable given the circumstances. Its unfortunate, but understandable. Looking at my own family, my mother inherited the family property after my father died. She has never had any officially payed job since her 30s. In the last 40 years, she has only lived off pension, and hasn't put anything back into the system. Meanwhile, I have worked 25 years straight now, and still don't have enough money to buy a decent apartment in the city where I work. I am guessing the perceived unfairness of this "pyramid" is going to make a lot more people unhappy in the future. Certainly, compared to my mother, my life feels like I am a drone. Not being female is a huge disadvantage these days. I mean, a pension for being married to a man who died? Alimony when the spouse leaves? All things males can only dream of. And, the incentives are all wrong. My mother didn't take on any official jobs because she would loose some of the pension she gets. So, its better to just suck every drop of blood you can out of the welfare state, instead of thinking about how the system actually works and that it needs people to put in effort so that others that really need it can take things out...

If my wife dies first I get half her pension, if I die first my wife gets half my pension.

If we divorce assets are spread equally. Kids complicate things a bit, the person who owes the kids get paid by the other one. As I have a far more flexible job (I do after school care etc) it’s likely I’d keep the kids and thus would be paid child support.

Things suck for the “young” (sub 45 nowadays). Despite what Andrew Tate and his ilk tells you this is nothing to do with gender. It’s to do with every increasing ownership of the wealth by the wealthiest.

First of all, great that you seem to have a relatively equal situation. It reads like your wife is actually working. Good for you.

However, your accusation is totally wrong and uncalled for. I know the name, but I have never read/heard anything from the Tate brothers. In fact, my opinion about female priviledge in our society stems purely from my own experience, in particular my mother. This is something I'd like to have (make and female) feminists understand. All I need to be resentful of female priviledge is my own mother and her spite and her totally lack of humility. Much of backlash towards feminism is self-inflicted. We don't need hateful men to tell us what to think about female priviledge. All we need is our own eyes. Not all women are shining examples of rationality and empathy. Maybe feminists should start by working on/with the bad apples in their own circles.

Fact is, my mother owns way more then I do, despite actually only having worked roughly 5 years in her whole life. All she owns was built up by men in the family of my father. And she inherited everything, including the priviledge of not having to go to work. If I could, I'd step into her shoes every day. And she doesnt even realize her priviledge, which is insulting.

This is just one example of the elderly spitting on the young, sometimes without even noticing. This tension is going to increase in the future even more.

This sounds like a personal issue you have with your own mother that you are desperately trying to extrapolate onto the rest of society. Taking one selfish woman and using it to demonise all women and even the concept of feminism is quite silly.

> Much of backlash towards feminism is self-inflicted.

Self-inflicted by non-feminists?

> We don't need hateful men to tell us what to think about female priviledge.

But you're going to do it anyway.

The sad thing is there are actual issues and there is a kernel of truth to the feeling that men are discriminated against in some cases (as of course are women - and let’s not go anywhere near transgender people) and life isn’t blind to gender - especially when it comes to custody decisions, but also in areas like justice and crime (are jail populations 50:50?), educational outcomes (boys do worse than girls), mental health (check suicide figures)

Sadly posters like this do so much damage to equality discourse that it’s unlikely to ever equalise until this vitriol is lost in the past like the prejudice to left handed people was.

> my life feels like I am a drone > Not being female is a huge disadvantage these days. > All things males can only dream of. Are you saying that the same dynamic do not occur when gender roles are reversed (pops stayed home while mom worked; mom does, pops gets house and pension)? No disrespect intended, but you might want to find someone to help you unpack and process these things you’re saying; no good will come of projecting on to gender dynamics and letting resentment fester.

I prefer to frame it as “help the younger generations” rather than “screw old people”.

I saw my parents, especially my mom, waste their youth taking care of two people who lived to near 100 years old, and I don’t want to see my kids waste their time and resources on me.

You want someone else's kids to do it?

No.

I mean, the model the current soon-to-be old people (boomers) operated on is exactly "screw everyone coming after me", so considered on the whole they deserve every bit of cold shoulder.

That doesn't mean that every boomer is bad of course, so if you have good (grand)parents, be good to them!

I get the sneaking suspicion that this might be a case of Poe's law.

> "Family is a burden, and screw old people" doesn't seem that conducive to a good society.

Great for GDP though

"Screw old people" is a common theme in hospitals and ironically, elderly homes.

> Should they feel any obligation to help my siblings once the time comes?

Absolutely not, but hopefully your siblings will have been positive enough presences in your children's lives that they will want to of their own accord.

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