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Comment by tombert | Hacker News Reader

When I worked at Apple, I didn't use the Apple mouse either. I used a USB gaming mouse that fit my hand a bit better. I wasn't the only one, and it wasn't weird in the office. Most people didn't use Apple monitors either, I believe mine was an LG, though I don't remember for sure.

I think there's this perception that Apple is this authoritarian company that will execute you for using any competitors' product, but that really wasn't the case. When COVID hit, I bought a giant Samsung TV to use as a monitor, expensed it, and it was approved within the same day. For the first six months I was there, I used an Android, and it worked fine enough for that, even for 2FA stuff.

I don't really blame Tim Cook for using a different brand of mouse. It doesn't even imply that it's bad, just not the one he uses.

I will complain about my time at Apple all the time, but this is not something that I thought they were bad about.

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But the Apple Mouse is terrible (ergonomically at least). I’m confused why a company so focused on accessibility has ignored iterating on this product.

I think companies get entrenched dysfunction that nobody can conquer.

Apple mice have always been bad.

One button mice were "simpler", but if everybody had to also learn to press control+click it wasn't really one-button.

Ahd how did they ever ship that round mouse you could never orient? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_puck_mouse

By thw way, have you ever tried to use a mighty mouse with an FPS game? It doesn't really work. Most games use one button for fire, the other for zoom. But you have to lift your fire finger off the mouse to click the zoom button.

the magic mouse... even worse.

I won't even go into games and apple, they're bad at that too.

Tesla is going down the same road, removing stalks and everything on the touchscreen.

Apple's eternal failure to make a decent mouse is, without exaggeration, probably the most baffling longstanding technology puzzle in the world to me.

Far from the most important mystery. But, the most baffling.

It's just bizarre because they tend to get other ergo factors right, such as making the best touchpads in the business.

Their 5-year nightmare of bad laptop keyboards was frustrating but at least there was an explanation: it seemed to pretty clearly be an artifact of Ive prioritizing thinness over functionality, and thankfully they belatedly righted themselves. The mouse situation just has no obvious explanation.

One can only imagine that the team responsible for designing the mice is some kind of third-class citizen inside Apple. But like... have the people on that team ever used their own products?!? How does that team use their own crap, and then use a Logitech mouse or even a $12 generic mouse from Amazon, and think they are competitive?

There is no “team responsible for designing the mice.” There is one design team and they design everything.

I'll bet new people go over to ask why the mice are so bad, then get chased away and give up.

I've met and worked with lots of apple developers. Many truly are fighting the good fight. Some are quite good, but wisely can only shrug about some apple-isms. You can only do so much.

But there are a few I've met that ... they are certain apple can do no wrong. sigh.

> But there are a few I've met that ... they are certain apple can do no wrong. sigh.

You will not yet escape them on "Hacker" News.

I doubt it. The core design team is a dozen people. There's nowhere to chase them to.

Because almost no Apple users use a mouse. How many iMacs does Apple sell relative to trackpad devices? It’d be a waste of R&D resources.

At this point the question is why the iMac still comes with the mouse. The Magic Trackpad is much better and all of Apple's software is designed for it.

Switching to an external trackpad fixed my carpal tunnel issues - and it works better than any mouse with macOS

By default, it comes with a trackpad.

This is simply untrue, the Magic Trackpad is a paid $50 upgrade from the default Magic Mouse: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac

By default, Apple expects you to own the Magic Mouse. Which is probably a part of their plan to upsell you to the Magic Trackpad - the rift in quality between the two accessories is so great that it's hard to imagine they're made by the same company.

I am wrong, but I think my point still stands. Very few people ever use the mouse. It would probably be better ROI for them to refine the design of dongles or something.

From what I see those are still CTO. The stock item comes with Magic Mouse.

I know people who actually like it. I've never been a fan, I don't like the little scroll clit that it has, I've always plugged in a USB mouse, but there are definitely people who like it.

I think it's like the IBM keyboard nipple. I have one on my Thinkpad, but I never use it, but I know some people who refuse to use anything else.

ETA:

I never liked the multitouch mice either.

Are you confusing the Apple Mouse and the (Apple) Magic Mouse?

Yep, I think I am, I did an ETA at the end there, though I didn't like either of them.

It implies they know there's a problem with their products but are unwilling to address them.

> I think there's this perception that Apple is this authoritarian company that will execute you for using any competitors' product, but that really wasn't the case.

They have cultivated this like a bonsai, carefully making a thousand precision papercuts to ensure competitors have to be inferior. And Schiller testified a few weeks ago that Cook is the artist.

It's likely The LG monitor at the time was the only retina monitor available. The Cinema Display was rather old, and newer Apple displays were not yet released

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