My TEDx Talk about Entrepreneurial Depression / Happiness | Hacker News Reader

My TEDx Talk about Entrepreneurial Depression / Happiness

elasticsales.com

150 pointsSteliE27 comments

I think this is a very under talked-about topic in Silicon Valley. I'm on my third startup after two successful exits and still deal with the "roller coaster" of emotions related to work in this field. I don't think it ever really subsides, at least not for certain people.

Like others mentioned I found meditation very useful. Also, I watch Stephen Hawking's documentary called something like "A Brief History of Everything" and this provides me relief as I'm reminded that eventually the sun will cool, the earth will implode, and all living beings who ever existed will return to the atomic ether.

so my ex-girlfriend and her new relationship will eventually die out too? That's a relief...

They might, but their undying love will never subside.

Nicely done SteliE. I particularly enjoyed the part towards the end where you discovered meditation was a useful tool. I discovered the same thing a couple years ago; recently, I haven't been meditating enough. The value of it being able to clear all the things from your mind and to try hard to just exist without everything else is extremely calming and, in my opinion, necessary.

I really need to start doing it again and you've inspired me to start.

Being happy is the only thing that really matters at the end of the day.

Thanks for sharing.

While I would agree that meditation helps to introspect and obtain perspective, I don't think that aiming for happiness (of itself) is meaningful at all.

Yikes, I meant ... you cannot pursue happiness for happiness' sake. It's a byproduct of living. Happiness is an oblique outcome of being - of existing.

I like what Robert Oppenheimer wrote to his brother Frank in one of his letters:

"Everyone wants rather to be pleasing to women and that desire is not altogether, though it is very largely, a manifestation of vanity. But one cannot aim to be pleasing to women any more than one can aim to have taste, or beauty of expression, or happiness; for these things are not specific aims which one may learn to attain; they are descriptions of the adequacy of one's living. To try to be happy is to try to build a machine with no other specification than that it shall run noiselessly." ~ Robert Oppenheimer

Interesting point. Though I have to interject that the origin of happiness is so different from person to person that it is sort of silly to make any kind of generalization. In fact, I've read longitudinal studies on happiness that conclude that a person's happiness remains relatively static throughout their life, which provides substantial evidence for happiness being the result of genetics and temperament.

Still, as far as I'm concerned, there's no good argument against aiming to understand what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, and keeping that magic thing in the forefront of your goals forever.

Or, it's evidence that the simple idea that happiness can be exercised and controlled, is unbelievable. And evidently some of us find it unbelievable. But what if it is true?

It would imply an introspecting mind that is consciously quantifying his/her state of being, maybe aided by meditation.

Can you really calculate your way to happiness or success? I'm beginning to think that the answer is yes. * Companies are using iDoneThis to quantify their work and maintain motivational fuel. * Developers use commit logs or derived graphics to get a feel for incremental progress. * I look at my test-code output to feel motivated by my battlescars, and see a replay of my program destroying that bug.

Success depends on many factors but two dependencies are motivation and happiness, for which quantification and reflection may help, and it's a skill to be practiced.

I have experienced happiness much more as a personal choice than a byproduct of living.

Your living creates certain external circumstances that can lead to happiness or depression. Often it really doesn't matter what the external result is produced by your "living" but how you internally decide to respond to it.

To share one of my favorite quotes on the topic :)

"If you can't be happy with a lollipop - how could you possibly be happy with a yacht?" Richard Bandler

Wonderful point. I've become convinced over time that how my life is going (at least, above a certain threshold and beyond short-term effects of recent unusual events) has relatively little effect upon how I'm feeling. It's more about how I choose to see things.

As a result, I've found my way to a great deal of happiness without any truly extraordinary achievements. Nowadays, my friends tell me I'm 'easily amused', which I take as a great compliment.

Good talk. Your method of writing down what the worst case scenario falls in line with what is known as cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is the recommended method of working through mild-to-moderate depressive episodes.

In fact, as a physician observing the HN community, I have acquired a folder of bookmarks, "Depression in Entrepreneurs", mainly centered around Andrews and Thomson's analytic-rheumination hypothesis, which highlights exactly that component of CBT as the cornerstone of successful coping: identify the problems, the worst possible outcomes, prioritize, and start working through them.

My brief summary of the AR hypothesis

=======

Your hippocampus, home of working memory, gets overwhelmed with all the problems. Something like this:

====

It's still crashing!? Wait, I have that widget sitting in /usr/bin still. I'm so hungry. Maybe I should take ritalin, I wouldn't be hungry. My girlfriend is totally pissed because I haven't taken her out in forever. I have to make payroll, but I can't quite do that unless I skip some meals, I can't tell Mr Investor that I can't go to lunch, because I need money. I can't talk to my girlfriend about Investor's lunch because it will just remind her .... shit, was that in /usr/bin or /sbin. Payroll. Lunch. LUNCH! I'M LATE FOR LUNCH WITH MR INVESTOR! AND THE SITE IS DOWN!!!! GREP! WHY DID I CHOOSE BSD!

====

So, CBT is a hack, which shunts some of that linguistic processing over to the only other area that does linguistic processing: Broca's area. But you need to verbalize to activate Broca's area. So you need to talk to someone. But not someone who's got a dog in the fight, not your girlfriend, not Mr Investor, not employee #1, not your business partner. Because then you'd just be doubling the load on your hippocampus again. So, talk to a counselor, priest, somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight. Explicitly enumerate your problems, worst case scenarios, and some branches and sequels.

=======

Here's the current contents of that folder, if anyone wants them...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734449/pdf/nihm...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/opinion/sunday/how-depress...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.ht...

http://muddylemon.com/2011/05/depression-burn-out-and-writin...

http://blog.asmartbear.com/burn-out.html

and newly added: https://elasticsales.com/blog/2012/08/03/entrepreneurial-dep...

And this is why I had my first screening session for CBT today. Thank you for putting into words precisely what I was thinking.

Great description of CBT.

For anyone who's not ready or can't afford to go to a CBT specialist, check out MoodGym - http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome.

"Andrews and Thomson's analytic-rheumination hypothesis... the cornerstone of successful coping: identify the problems, the worst possible outcomes, prioritize, and start working through them ... Explicitly enumerate your problems, worst case scenarios, and some branches and sequels..."

This is the exact discovery/scenario process drilled into the planning phase of hikes over long distances and/or difficult terrain.

Risk analyst at PwC. This also sounds very similar to my role.

One of the greatest speaches I've heard recently. The work/life balance problems are so common among us entrepreneurs. For me the solution was to start jogging regularly - it's almost like meditation and you can just run and not think about your next problem to be solved.

I also like your comment about being happy. Perhaps it may sound a bit hedonistic, but it really is the most important thing in live! Well done.

Three points that stood out for me were: 1) meditate 2) work on one thing that matters the most for today 3) know that you have good options even if your startup fails

In essence through meditation entrepreneurs can bring forth deep resources from the subconscious, through one pointed attention they can complete tasks that matter and by putting others first, deliver right value at the right price.

I am an entrepreneur too and the way I keep my balance is follow the eight point passage meditation program (http://www.easwaran.org/the-eight-point-program.html).

Very very nice. Great job SteliE.

I used to meditate every day, and have fallen off the wagon lately. This reminded me to get back in the practice. That alone was worth it.

I am no entrepreneur (yet) but I think your advice applies well to life in general - it's just a ride - many things that we fret over today won't matter 5 years from now - this, along with "what's the worst that could happen?" can help put many things in perspective.

Congrats on getting married, and your first-born :)

Thanks sir! :) Appreciate the kind words & wishes!

Really great talk. Thanks! You hear a lot of people talking about how to succeed more, faster, etc. but very few people seem to mention all the little side effects of being a die hard entrepreneur, or how to deal with them.

I don't think you ever truly get over a burnout like that, especially not if it has any long lasting effects.

Too much was familiar to me a couple of years ago. Glad it is not so anymore.

Jacques Mattheij's blog posts on burnout are very helpful. I recommend reading them and re-reading them:

http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out

http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out

There are various useful discussions in the HN archives, including this one:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300244

mrcharles's comment rings in my head to this day: "The first thing I've learned is that I can't accurately judge my limits."

This is a great and inspiring talk. Thanks.

Appreciate the kind words :) Happy you liked it!

I agree, great talk.

Sorry but I can't help be curious about this, what were the results of the drinking game?

Thanks! :)

Unfortunately I can't publicly tell that part of the story yet. But ping me at steli@elasticsales.com if you really wanna know ;)

Steli means it when he roots for the entrepreneur - first hand experience here. Thanks Steli! :)

I feel you man...great talk!

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