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Comment by rauljara | Hacker News Reader

The best[1] advertising is the kind that informs people that a solution to their very real problems exists.

The worst[1] advertising is the kind that convinces you you have a problem you don't really have. It aims to make unhappy with what you have or who are when you would otherwise have been content.

Sometimes it seems to me like our society gets shaped more by the worst kinds of advertising than the best.

[1] By best and worst, I mean most beneficial to the person/people viewing the advertisement. An advertiser or deodorant executive would probably have a different opinion on the matter.

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While I agree with your point, you seem to be suggesting that you'd put this example on the worst side of things. I'd say that everyone smelling bad is a problem and I'm really glad somebody solved that problem.

Or do you think that way because you've always assumed it was a problem? It isn't until our most insecure moments of adolescence that we really start sweating enough to require deodorants. What better time to strike at insecurities to sell a product for life? And after all these years, it certainly is a reinforcing loop. for example, you don't see ads trying to convince you that body odor is an issue - that's assumed.

Not that I disagree with you, I think that the mix of increased population density in cities combined with chemistry made it all but inevitable. But the cynic in me finds the idea of self propagating ad campaigns brilliant.

People have been using scented fragrances to cover up both body odor and other odors for thousands of years. I don't believe they had advertising convincing them they smelled bad.

Certainly, the idea of what smells "good" and "bad" is subjective, but as history proves out, I think our societal aversion to odors is 1. deeply seeded and 2. probably practical - if you smell bad, you are likely dirty (and need to wash up)

After hearing the US abandoned chemical weapons based on the odor of feces and rot because 'not all cultures share the same aversion to those smells" I was surprised to read the following quote in Marcus Aurelius's Meditations:

Art thou angry with him whose armpits stink ? art thou angry with him whose mouth smells foul ? What good will this anger do thee ? He has such a mouth, he has such arm- pits: it is necessary that such an emanation must come from such things: but the man has reason, it will be said, and he is able, if he takes pains, to discover wherein he offends; I wish thee well of thy discovery. Well then, and thou hast reason: by thy rational faculty stir up his rational faculty; show him his error, admonish him. For if he listens, thou wilt cure him, and there is no need of anger.

i recall reading about a letter from napolean to josephine on his way back from some war. he told her to stop bathing, I'm on my way home. when it comes to cultural context, i guess anything goes...

There are quite a few baths and bathtubs in Homer, poems written a cool 3 millenia or so before TV.

People didn't have access to convenient running warm water and soap as much back then either.

> Or do you think that way because you've always assumed it was a problem?

It really is a problem, one people tried to solve long before we had modern advertising. Try going somewhere that deodorant hasn't really caught on yet (e.g. India).

The question, I think, isn't whether someone from a culture influenced by the deodorant ads will find the smell of body odor offensive.

The question is whether we would find it offensive if no one had told us that our body odor was repulsive.

I could honestly go either way on this. I've seen plenty of evidence that people's reaction to odors is quite context dependent. I remember someone ruining a popular brand of cheese-flavored chip at my old office when they realized that when you asked someone to smell of chip bag with their eyes closed (and without them knowing what you would put in front of them) they'd recoil in disgust. It turns out some kinds of cheese smells indistinguishably like vomit.

It isn't until our most insecure moments of adolescence that we really start sweating there anyway. It's a function of puberty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrine_sweat_gland

Puberty is the major reason that adolescence is so awkward and makes us insecure. If you're prone to believe in conspiracies, it's the perfect time to convince people they need a product to make them feel better about themselves.

Come to think of it, why do teenagers like Facebook again?

I think the self propagating ad campaigns are brilliant as well, but I also consider it a problem. Even if I don't care about anyone else, I'd personally rather not smell bad, as I have to be near myself all the time.

You don't notice your own smell. I shower every morning and after a workout, but I don't use 'oder' enhancing products and people have commented that I smell nice. But, it's also possible to stink without noticing it. I think this has a lot to do with diet as I have read that a lot of what people consider 'bad' smells are actually signs that something is wrong with you.

Eventually, you do notice your own smell.

It event doesn't require all that much. Sweat while doing some physical work, wait 12 hours without changing clothes and then do some physical work and sweat again. You'll smell to yourself like your fat uncle when he fixes the plumbing. Body odour changes so if you are younger than 30 or older than 50 you expeirience may vary.

I don't wear deodorant, I usually have no need for it. I've asked girlfriends and friends, nobody ever notices anything smelly. I do well at my job. The only time I'm excessively sweaty and smelly is when I work out. I would bet this is the case for a good percentage of the population, it's just that most people don't realize it, because they've been told they need it since the 4th grade, and never went a day without it since...

As someone especially sensitive to smell I applaude your decision to not wear smelly deodorant.

In the same token, you should know that while other people might not detect your BO, I certainly can and will. But I won't mention it - I'll just get my desk moved to the other side of the office and generally try to avoid you entirely.

Just hope that people like me are never in a position to influence your life - because your BO can and will play a factor to those people.

Of the people I've met that claim to have sensitive noses, they seem to usually complain about artificial scents, like too much cologne, "deodorant" or after shave.

The only times I've heard them complain about smelly BO was when everyone else could too and the person in question should have had wiggly smell lines draw around them if they were in a comic.

> As someone especially sensitive to smell I applaude your decision to not wear smelly deodorant.

One of the problems I noticed when I decided to start using scent free products is that it is extraordinarily difficult to find deodorants or products that are truly scent free. I have found that even most of the ones marked as "scent free" or sensitive have a slight odor to them.

I am not part of that percentage of the population. I sweat easily, and it definitely doesn't smell like roses.

I'd rather people err on the side of not smelling like an armpit.

Unfortunately, I am not in that part of the population. I sweat quite a bit, always, and it does smell. It's quite obvious if I forgot to use an antiperspirant one day.

Am I missing the sarcasm here?

Asking your friends if you smell is like asking them if you're fat.

Good luck getting anything close to an honest answer, particularly when you clearly believe otherwise.

I don't think my friends would have a problem giving me a truthful answer if I said, "hey, I'm doing an experiment this week; I need you to tell me if I smell or not".

Right...

Just like the last time you encountered body odor or anything else annoying in public and immediately, openly confronted the person about it, exactly as you would have if they had approached and questioned you with a "doing an experiment disclaimer".

No, most people I know would give an honest answer, since they'd be the ones to suffer from it and it's easily fixable (as opposed to being fat).

hahaha, I think you underestimate the level of crassness, frankness, and rudeness my friends and I have with each other.

I don't think so.

It's pretty typical for crass, frank, rudeness applied to on subject to be completely acceptable while speaking freely on another could easily end a friendship.

People (taken as a whole) thinking our natural smell is "bad" is the direct result of advertising (well originally, the advertisers have so dominated society's collective mind we now aide them through peer pressure, etc).

This "problem" is constructed and would not exist without a profit motive.

> People (taken as a whole) thinking our natural smell is "bad" is the direct result of advertising

I am of the same opinion. It is also mostly an American or Western phenomenon. People in other countries, it seems, don't mind they way sweat smells as much, or at least don't consider it so offensive.

If it wasn't for advertising, I never would have known that "previously loved" diamonds are inferior to blood diamonds. Or that man-made chemically pure diamonds are frauds and only mined diamonds have any value.

Don't forget that buying a diamond engagement ring has been a tradition dating back to before "your favorite historical figure from over two hundred years ago's" time.

Or is it five hundred years? I forget.

This is a good article on that phenomenon:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you...

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