8 of the top 10 "raised" sites are software dev sites and with #6 being MDN I'm guessing it's not just any software devs, is web developers specifically that use Kagi.
Am I drawing the wrong conclusion? Does that mean Kagi's days are numbered? What would it take for them to get enough non-web-devs that the top 10 raised looked more representative of the average internet user?
Technical users also likely have specific sites (namely documentation) that they wish to bump in their results where other professions might not.
I'm not disagreeing with your point, just offering some thoughts of my own.
To be honest, I’ve only heard of Kagi on HN and nowhere in any of my friend groups.
Why would it mean that their days are numbered? Nothing wrong with having steady income from a loyal customer-base, even if that customer-base is niche.
Growth mindset is a big part of our sick society, unfortunately. It's the only thing our politicians like to talk about, after all. Being a stable business delivering value is as good as dead.
I think the bigger danger is the competition around AI chat assistants. There are other paid assistants, but you already see that even the paid assistants are getting trained to promote certain corporations.
edit I do not agree with this, but this is what i assume OP was referring to? Because right now web devs is a quite populous and active crowd.
Or how about the average knowledge worker? There's hundreds of millions of them.
I pay for Kagi and it's refreshing to actually see real results rather than sponsored slop from the others.
I am an average internet user.
The average Internet user doesn't visit HN at all.
The intersection of these groups, HN visitors that comment? Distinctly not average.
Loyal Kagi customer here, based on their posts and in my dealings with them, they are doing their thing and doing well
They are focused on privacy, do a great job of it, and their AI assistant is top notch (highly recommend you take a look, can choose from many models and swap out responses instantly, not even getting into the awesome search features)
Not commenting on your (good) who is the main audience question, rather the other point about if Kagi is doing well
I subscribed my girlfriend to it as well and tell people whenever the moment is appropriate
Really rooting for these guys to succeed long term
As an aside, when I got my Kagi subscription the first thing I did was lower Pinterest results
Here are the stats: https://kagi.com/stats
How many are paid vs trial accounts?
We know family doesn't offer a trial nor teams.
126 teams x 5 or 6 members = 1,000 accounts at 10 per day 10k
4500 family plans: most will take the 20 a month plan 100k
45000 individuals lets say they are all paid most on the 5 dollar plans lets assume on average 6.50 is earned 300k
Then you have orion+ members at 2000 giving an extra $15 per account. 30k
They probably make 450k a month
They have 19 employees on linkedin and they are listed at under 50 everywhere else. Lets give them 25 employees at 100k average salary which would be 2.5 million in salaries which might be low.
Add on costs to actually run the website (paid search, servers, office costs) which hopefully cost less than 3.5 million.. the rest is profit.
I'd say they are doing well enough. My average of 5/6 per team might be much higher if they have a few 100+ sized teams. I think the mode would be 5/6 regardless of the average.
I don’t use it, but the Privacy Pass [0] thing should actually make it great for privacy if you care more about that than personalization.
Looking at their privacy policy they state the following:
> We may store web requests made by user browser temporarily, with strict retention periods, for debugging purposes, and in a manner that they are not linked to an account.
For 2 years they've said "Kagi has zero marketing budget and spends zero on marketing", that's a lie and they still haven't changed it. They've sponsored over 200 youtube videos https://filmot.com/search/%22brought%20to%20you%20in%20assoc...
I asked because the search you've linked to only seems to list relatively niche chess videos on one creator's account. And the videos themselves are also ad-supported. It's (at least) not impossible that the sponsorship association is not budgeted in the way that (I think) you infer.
https://kagifeedback.org/d/3822-kagi-is-sponsoring-youtube-v...
"I watched Daniel King for 10 years and have previously donated to him, now I am happy that we are in position to sponsor his work which I believe is extraordinary.", this also definitely sounds like monetary compensation to me.
It’s also much bigger than their customer base. Keep going, Kagi.
I do both, and I have MDN pinned. The thing is, if I search for C#, Python, Java, I get great results on any search engine. If I search for web stuff, I get tons of crap and mediocrity. MDN is almost always what I want instead of some other stuff.
Regarding "days numbered", I agree with the gist of the other replies ;)
Perhaps it just means technically inclined people are the first to see value and use in some product. Whether word of mouth spreads and people will find value in paying for search engine + goodies - time will tell.
Kagi is fairly good at ranking results and essentially making do with what they have, but in my experience it does not seem very good at all for searching for anything particularly obscure. It's like how DuckDuckGo uses Bing - nearly useless if you're not searching popular sites (like Wikipedia, MDN, etc.)
With Kagi this is more significant because paying for a search engine is an even larger obstacle than simply switching.
It is developers who are more likely to take digital privacy more seriously than the rest. And so, it seems like Kagi is indeed on its way finding product fit with the most demanding segment (from a digital/information privacy standpoint) there is.
For any tech, it is fully expected that early adopters belong to a niche. Whether Kagi wants to make the leap or stay in this segment is upto them. There is no indication that they have saturated the market even in their niche ("developers"), while this niche itself on its own might be lucrative enough.
Besides, Kagi may very well venture into other products to sell to the same market segment.
If anything, to me, the writing that's on the wall for Vlad (Kagi's creator) right now is... "The world's your oyster".
It’s better to “own” 10% a known, faithful customer base than 0.1% of a floating one.
IME, this works well.
If they can sustain, maybe they can takeoff. Search in GenAI world is hard, and Google has other focuses with talent and inference chips too.
I hope their days aren’t numbered!
I think it needs some UI improvements. It’s ugly, and I find it can hinder actual use.
More usability improvements on features. There’s a lot I’m still not leveraging because I haven’t bothered learning. Maybe they can build an LLM tool to help with this?
And I don’t care how, but make it easy to make it default on all browsers, mobile mainly. Maybe they fixed this recently, but when I was swapping browsers recently, this was annoying. If they can’t fix this, they probably won’t make it.
Just some top of mind thoughts as high-usage, 95%+ non-coding user.
The "hacker" type of computer user is zealous in everything they do.
What's important is that Kagi refrains from letting hacker zealots influence their business too much, because normal people also deserve high quality search results, and most knowledge workers are not software developers.