Thats some pretty shady shit. I have a relative who is mostly a-political and bought a Tesla years ago with the intention of being good for the environment. Now she has a target on her back? What?
Agree it's a cruel thing to do though. I prefer the "I humped Your Hummer" type site from a decade or so ago. More humorous. Definitely mostly harmless.
Wonder what the details are on this BYD claim.
Rivian seems clean but they are more expensive, only SUVs, and aren't doing well financially. Even still you probably end up using superchargers.
It's pretty difficult to be morally consistent in your purchases. Where you draw the line is a personal choice.
Yes, companies like Porsche and Ford were founded by Nazis. But that was then and this is now. If the CEO of one of those companies throws a Hitler salute in public, they will be unemployed the next day. If the CEO of Tesla does the same thing, they will be handed $50 billion, patted on the back, and told, "Good job." That's a perfectly good reason for someone who is in the market for a car to choose one over the other.
To be painstakingly clear I'm not defending Elon and I'm definitely not suggesting that people shouldn't avoid Tesla for whatever reasons they choose. My issue is inciting vandalism, or violence, against consumers who have made their own choices in this complex web.
I don't have a good use case for EVs myself, but there was a time when I wished I did because I believed in what Tesla and Musk in general were apparently trying to do. I thought he was doing what I'd like to think I'd do in his shoes -- building cool stuff, trying to make a positive contribution to human progress, and making bank in the process. But his true agenda unfolded in a very different direction relative to one of those ideals, and for me, two out of three doesn't cut it.
(And yes, people who fuck with other peoples' cars occupy the next level down from Nazis in my personal Inferno. No argument there.)
I'd like the latter to be generally illegal (along with most of the analytics industry — just the other day I got a popup that wanted me to share my use of a website with 1604(!) partners, whereas my secondary school only had about 1000 students).
The former, I wish we could actually do something about, but China is so dominant on the world Aluminium markets that even if you didn't buy from them directly, all you're doing is substituting yourself for another buyer — boycotting Chinese aluminium is probably possible, but is like trying to get private individuals to boycott Nestlé.
> Ford and most of the German and Italian automakers have fascist roots and were involved in forced labor. Many of them are owned by the same families implicated in those past decisions.
Stuff that happened before most people alive today were born, and where the evil was systematically routed out immediately after WW2 right up until people decided there was a greater evil next door (in the form of the USSR), isn't going to upset people as much as hitching your wagon to a party that is currently doing as much as it can as fast as it can to undermine the USA's economic and global soft-power, while openly disregarding the sovereignty of two direct neighbours (including one he's a citizen of!), tweeting a well-technically about how many people Hitler killed, and doing something that is close enough to a Nazi salute to be unlawful to reproduce in Germany.
As for who to replace with, I don't know what their sales are like in the USA, but the Stellantis group collectively has a lot of brands.
That I don't disagree with.
However maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit hypocritical to liken Tesla as some Nazi brand when there's some 5-8 brands on the road that willingly used forced labor. Some in their own concentration camps. I don't see how it matters how long ago that was. The generational wealth of these families and their companies are built off of that lineage.
If people were immortal, I'd agree.
I think in something like hyperbolic discounting, with each generation having diminishing connection to the atrocities of the past. If I didn't… well, I don't know how much of my family wealth came indirectly from the colonies — I do know one of my grandfathers was a British civil servant and my mother's mother was in the British Raj as either a young child or toddler. I may not be a Christian for the last 25-30 years, but I was raised Catholic and read the Bible, so I know about Matthew 7:5, motes and planks in eyes etc.
I do know that "Sins of the Father" and "Ancestral sin" is a long-standing aspect of human cognition, but I think it's this aspect which itself is the string in our heads upon which demagogues pull.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sins_of_the_Father
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_sin
(None of that applies to current Uyghur (or other) forced labour, of course).
My argument isn't that we should be punishing consumers of VW, Audi, and GM. It's that consumers are one of the last people that should be responsible for how their money is used. If you go that route everyone is complicit in something awful. There are better ways to make change than blame the consumer.
Are liberals responsible for DOGE because they own a Tesla? It's nonsense.
These social movements have little room for nuance and decisions of who to target are rarely morally consistent.
Speaking personally, it could be as soon as Musk leaves the picture, depending on who else takes over.
As for "who decides", I think everyone has to decide for themselves — I won't think worse of anyone who boycotts the Tesla brand for life.
> These social movements have little room for nuance and decisions of who to target are rarely morally consistent.
Welcome to humanity.
After the board finally wakes up and kicks Elon to the curb.
Hey, I boycott Nestlé and find it pretty low-effort; I expect boycotting Chinese aluminum would be much more difficult.
Thing is, everyone involved in that is dead, and in the case of the Germans the ownership has entirely changed (any continuity between today's VW and Gesellschaft zur Vorbereitung des Deutschen Volkswagens mbH is, well, incredibly tenuous, say). Like, it's hardly comparable to a company where the _current CEO_ is flouncing about doing Nazi salutes and tweeting Hitler apologia.
A Ukrainian could have reasons to choose Tesla over Polestar. A liberal minded Korean could have reasons to buy Tesla over Hyundai. A human rights activist or journalist could have reasons to buy Tesla over Lucid. A Jewish person could have reasons to buy Tesla over BMW. That doesn't even touch on all the other decisions that go into purchasing a car.
If you want to boycott a brand, for whatever reasons, and promote others to do the same, I think it's totally acceptable. People just might have a different calculation than you and that is also acceptable.
There's no righteousness in inciting crime against people because one thinks their moral judgments are some how superior. It's irresponsible, dangerous, and illiberal.
Well, sort of. The real target is Musk & his wealth, which is in large part derived from Tesla. The people doing this want to harm Tesla, by making owning a Tesla unpleasant, which depresses Tesla car sales & values, which harms Musk & his wealth.
It does seem to be a somewhat effective approach: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/used-tesla-prices-tumbl...
I'm personally kind of neutral on the approach. It is the case that most Tesla owners are not awful people and don't really deserve to have their lives upset by this. On the other hand, society really doesn't have very many options when it comes to reigning in invincible monsters like Elon Musk. Is this approach ethical? Probably not. Is it also the best available option? Seems so. I don't know.
Come on man... its tiring as hell why can't people just be themselves. Why do we all have to be 100% connected to everything all the time.
Its completely astounding that we're now all expected to know and choose a side about every single thing, and if we don't know about it or for a given issue we either don't have enough information to choose a side or are unaware then we're complicit.
Exactly how have I harmed someone through owning a Tesla since before Elon's political stunts. And do we really expect everyone who owns one, including people who financed and would almost guaranteed take a loss and screw up their financial wellbeing for potentially years to sell it at the cost of their families financial health?
[EDIT: But if you resent even having to think about it (bc it need not cost you money, but things always cost attention), then I don't know what to say to you in this moment.]
I'm just glad it's now taboo to own a Tesla. Because in my world view, the poorer Elon Musk gets, the safer we all are in our home democracies.
Likewise, Russian citizens are suffering the consequences of their leader's choices. They didn't vote to go to war, they were born there before the war broke out, but they're paying the price. I'm sure the people of Ukraine would love to live in peace and be left alone, but that choice was taken from them. And so they fight.
And since you own a luxury car, you can afford to get rid of it. It might not be a comfortable choice, you might lose some money, but I am confident that your life does not depend on you holding and using that asset. Serviceable used cars go for a couple thousand bucks. Really cool and flashy ones can go for ten.
The current government is exhausting. That's the point. It's so frustrating hearing people complain instead of taking action. Things are harder for everyone, a lot of people here have lived too many decades without any real form of struggle and it shows in the things they complain about & how they frame the current reality.
Also just to say you might want to read a newspaper because Trudeau is no longer the prime minister.
It's a very tone deaf & privileged stand to complain about how an authoritarian government is making your life harder. If you're not being mistakenly imprisoned or actively hunted, the options are to join the resistance, or put your tail between your legs, let the government trample others' rights (and by proxy, your rights), and try to fool yourself into thinking you can just let things blow over.
If you're not joining in the resistance and you're instead choosing to sit out the fight for your freedoms & rights, you don't get to criticize the people who ARE fighting. They're fighting for themselves & their loved ones, and for you, whether you join in or not.
Sure we do.
Stop saying that. Stop stirring up people and instead let sleeping dogs lie.
From a detailed post-election analysis posted on HN earlier today (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43400172): "The reality is if all registered voters had turned out, then Donald Trump would’ve won the popular vote by 5 points [instead of 1.7 points]. So, I think that a “we need to turn up the temperature and mobilize everyone” strategy would’ve made things worse."
Lots of people are indifferent or even supported what's happening and if your side continues to harass them they'll come out in even bigger numbers to vote against your side in the midterms or 2028. Hectoring people for being apolitical has been a losing strategy so stop following it.
Yes. Yes they are.
We see the true face of Americans and what they really believe. Whether 51% or 49% of America wants this is basically irellevent.
Glad I roll American coal!
ETA: i haven't driven a diesel in ~20 years, and it wasn't rolling coal. we have two japanese cars. If you can't detect the irony and self-deprecation in this comment, just move on.
In fact, i'll propose this to HN. You have your tesla that you can "no longer, in good faith, continue to own" delivered to a lot i specify, and i'll livestream a team of people taking it apart, sorting it, and sending the pieces off to recycling. I will not pay you for your tesla, and you must include the pink slip.
any takers? I am completely serious. I think it would be fun (for me to set up and watch), it would probably be a well-viewed stream and VoD for each car, you could share the links with friends and family to show the strength of your convictions. It's win-win-win; Tesla already got their money, recycling is good for the earth, and you get to make a statement. I also win because i will pay the team that dismantles the car with the proceeds from recycling, which makes me a job creator.
It's directed at others that want to performatively demonstrate getting rid of their Tesla, there's no claim that genewitch wants to rid the world of Tesla's, just an offer to provide a team and a channel for those that are prepared to go the whole way.
Think of it as a "put up or shut up" challenge.
Car companies care deeply about resale value, since that directly impacts new car value.
That's what we're finding out in real time. A house signifies a one time purchase for a builder, whereas a Tesla is not only a moving advertisement but normally comes with a subscription service for maintenance and support, so the connection to and enablement of the company continues after purchase and through use.
Selling your house also wouldn't affect the power of the builder because his payment comes as a single packet after completing the contracted work, whereas Musk's power is supported by the stock value of his various companies and Tesla's stock price is connected to the value of their cars which is in Oost predicated on having a good resale value. If people rush to sell their Teslas then these values are negatively affected.
Finally the question about the builder is A) hypothetical while the Tesla situation is actually unfolding before us today, and B) aan unfair comparison because it's unlikely a tradesman will amass so much influence that his "unsavory" acts could lead to changing the power balances in warzones, shaking the foundations of American democracy, dismantling the relations that our treaty and security organisations are built upon etc etc etc.
I know I am.. there's no selling my Tesla at this point. Not for a while, and probably not ever, the way things are going.
That said, I'm 100% for tanking TSLA stock down to $110 to make life very very miserable for Musk..
https://www.thestreet.com/technology/tesla-stock-declines-co...