'Dogequest' Site Claims to Dox Tesla Owners Across the U.S.

These are interesting times, and between (IMO inevitable) catastrophic domestic economic impact, already ocurring international diplomatic incidents, and near universal domestic support for both the 1st and 2nd amendments, I can't predict anything about this.

I'm optimistic about the carbon these days. But I also think the Trump administration's position on Ukraine is going to result in a lot of countries developing their own independent nuclear capabilities, and that itself creates more risk of nuclear war.

Perhaps it will be limited to Panama and America attacking each other. The world is looking at how worthless has been the signiatures on the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances and considering matters accordingly.

Interfering with elections to create a position for yourself and then using threats about further interference to bully the elected officials around you is quite another.

Quite a lot of money has been spent ensuring that people believe--for better or worse--that the symbols that we surround ourselves with are an expression of who we are. That if we wear the right brands, or drive the right kind of car, then others will know that we're the right kind of people. Why else do people wear MAGA hats? Sentiment around symbols is the board on which on which billionaires play power games.

Are you proposing that it should only work in one direction? That it's fine to drive Apple stock up by expressing approval of somebody's MacBook, but it's forbidden to drive Tesla stock down by expressing disapproval of somebody's Tesla? Because that's absurd.

I'm aware that there wasn't a good way to predict that the power was going to go to Musk's head like it has. It was a very easy mistake to make, I almost made it as well. But if we avoid classifying it as a mistake, then we protect the value of the brand, and then we too are complicit in the harms caused by its owner--whose legitimacy (in the eyes of our myopic leadership) is derived from the value of his brands.

I'll admit that it's a bit of a hack, there are better ways to implement democracy, but can any of the them be used right now?

If people were immortal, I'd agree.

I think in something like hyperbolic discounting, with each generation having diminishing connection to the atrocities of the past. If I didn't… well, I don't know how much of my family wealth came indirectly from the colonies — I do know one of my grandfathers was a British civil servant and my mother's mother was in the British Raj as either a young child or toddler. I may not be a Christian for the last 25-30 years, but I was raised Catholic and read the Bible, so I know about Matthew 7:5, motes and planks in eyes etc.

I do know that "Sins of the Father" and "Ancestral sin" is a long-standing aspect of human cognition, but I think it's this aspect which itself is the string in our heads upon which demagogues pull.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sins_of_the_Father

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_sin

(None of that applies to current Uyghur (or other) forced labour, of course).

A Ukrainian could have reasons to choose Tesla over Polestar. A liberal minded Korean could have reasons to buy Tesla over Hyundai. A human rights activist or journalist could have reasons to buy Tesla over Lucid. A Jewish person could have reasons to buy Tesla over BMW. That doesn't even touch on all the other decisions that go into purchasing a car.

If you want to boycott a brand, for whatever reasons, and promote others to do the same, I think it's totally acceptable. People just might have a different calculation than you and that is also acceptable.

There's no righteousness in inciting crime against people because one thinks their moral judgments are some how superior. It's irresponsible, dangerous, and illiberal.

In fact, i'll propose this to HN. You have your tesla that you can "no longer, in good faith, continue to own" delivered to a lot i specify, and i'll livestream a team of people taking it apart, sorting it, and sending the pieces off to recycling. I will not pay you for your tesla, and you must include the pink slip.

any takers? I am completely serious. I think it would be fun (for me to set up and watch), it would probably be a well-viewed stream and VoD for each car, you could share the links with friends and family to show the strength of your convictions. It's win-win-win; Tesla already got their money, recycling is good for the earth, and you get to make a statement. I also win because i will pay the team that dismantles the car with the proceeds from recycling, which makes me a job creator.

That's what we're finding out in real time. A house signifies a one time purchase for a builder, whereas a Tesla is not only a moving advertisement but normally comes with a subscription service for maintenance and support, so the connection to and enablement of the company continues after purchase and through use.

Selling your house also wouldn't affect the power of the builder because his payment comes as a single packet after completing the contracted work, whereas Musk's power is supported by the stock value of his various companies and Tesla's stock price is connected to the value of their cars which is in Oost predicated on having a good resale value. If people rush to sell their Teslas then these values are negatively affected.

Finally the question about the builder is A) hypothetical while the Tesla situation is actually unfolding before us today, and B) aan unfair comparison because it's unlikely a tradesman will amass so much influence that his "unsavory" acts could lead to changing the power balances in warzones, shaking the foundations of American democracy, dismantling the relations that our treaty and security organisations are built upon etc etc etc.

[EDIT: But if you resent even having to think about it (bc it need not cost you money, but things always cost attention), then I don't know what to say to you in this moment.]

I'm just glad it's now taboo to own a Tesla. Because in my world view, the poorer Elon Musk gets, the safer we all are in our home democracies.

Likewise, Russian citizens are suffering the consequences of their leader's choices. They didn't vote to go to war, they were born there before the war broke out, but they're paying the price. I'm sure the people of Ukraine would love to live in peace and be left alone, but that choice was taken from them. And so they fight.

And since you own a luxury car, you can afford to get rid of it. It might not be a comfortable choice, you might lose some money, but I am confident that your life does not depend on you holding and using that asset. Serviceable used cars go for a couple thousand bucks. Really cool and flashy ones can go for ten.

There are plenty of legitimate antisemites in Trump's base, however Miriam Adelson is willing to overlook that to further her own fascist project. I think we are in agreement here.

The parent comment was using tokenism in their "argument" if you could call it that.

Or as a more recent example, look at the January 6 2021 protests. Trump supporters quite literally stormed the national legislature; although a lot of the rank and file ended up in prison, none of the organizers even faced charges, and 4 years later Trump regained office, in part based on his promise to pardon all the J6 defendants (which he subsequently did). Now one could argue about what proportion of hearts and minds hold him in affection by comparing various opinion polls, but the reality is that he holds power and is wielding it like it's going out of fashion.

So while I agree with you that it's an unlikeable tactic (the more so when it impacts individual consumers; I don't much care about the dealerships), I disagree about its longer-term effectiveness. There's a lot of evidence pointing to the conclusion that violating norms frequently pays off. Protests that go out of their way not to offend or inconvenience anyone may attract some sympathy but seem to yield little in the way of results.