Hacker News Reader

Comment by mjfl | Hacker News Reader

[flagged]

"War against Ukraine"? That's the first time I've heard that phrased that way from a non-Russian source. What have you been reading? Aren't you whitewashing Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

And, to call Azov an extremist group, or to liken them to people who literally tried to overthrow the US government, or to ISIS, that is plain disturbed.

I've not even heard Russian sources refer to it as the "war against Ukraine"! Typically it's the "special military operation" or something to the effect of a war against a dictator or Western interests or something. Never "war against Ukraine". One does not fight a war against a country whose people one believes want to one to annex them.

> That's the first time I've heard that phrased that way from a non-Russian source.

We don't know if this was from a non-Russian source.

> to call Azov an extremist group, [...], that is plain disturbed.

Really? "Extremist brigade" then? Their isnignia is the one of 2.nd SS division Deutschland, cleverly mirrored. They were on the US sanction list.

Their insignia has the germanic wolf that is clearly meant to resonate with WW2 german, Nazi military symbolism. In its early days they had leaders that were overt Neonazis. No one is denying that, and I have no love for the far-right. But, what extreme acts of injustice have they committed? Have they been less than adamant defenders of their home, from an invasion with genocidal, maximalist goals, of all things? The only extreme things they've done is extreme sacrifice, as far as I can tell.

I might be wrong, there might be things I've not heard of. If that's the case, inform me. What I do know is that they're a notoriously effective brigade in the Ukrainian military and that any argument about their focus not being on the defence of Ukraine's statehood would be very hard to make. I also know that their checkered past has been a goto subject for Russian propaganda campaigns, aiming to divide the West.

I'm not more of a supporter of this brigade, than anyone else fighting for Ukraine. I am from the Baltics. For us, Russia is an existential and immediate threat. When the new US administration reneged on support for Ukraine and, by extension, us, literally every woman that's close to me said she's worried about war. You probably don't know what that's like. Our anxiety for the future is palpable. That motivates me to speak up.

Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I personally consider any group that worships nazis to be an extremist group. If they were in the US and hadn't done any kind of "extremist act" I would feel the same way.

From what I've heard in interviews with fighters from other units (Lindybeige ones come to mind), which is hearsay I grant you, they're not Nazis, much less worshippers of Nazis. A few bad apples, or some such.

Ukrainian Nazi groups apparently always had problems making connections with other Nazi groups because they were all pro-russia

I think you mean Enrique Tarrio. Ritchie Torres is a representative from the south bronx.

Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is your friend, other times they are just another enemy. Playing both sides does sometimes get messy but that's the next generation's problem.

It's pretty disgusting to demand a domestic crackdown on your political opponents because of the 'threat' posed by an extremist group that you are covertly funding, training, and controlling, which is what happened with Azov.

What domestic crackdown are you talking about, specifically?

The crackdown on Trump supporters after his 2016 election.

https://archive.ph/uJR8h

Replying here since your other comment is flagged (IMO only because of the profanity, so if you want more people to see your comments maybe learn how to form an argument without it):

> It's not my job to educate you.

This is a common tactic of both the left and the right when they are faced with evidence that goes contrary to a (typically pretty tenuous) claim they're making. "Well I've given you a single source that exactly fits my worldview so now if you disagree you're simply uneducated, not disagreeing on the merits. It's impossible that the source I gave is absolute garbage."

It is your job to educate people when you're making a claim that goes against common sense. As far as I am aware there was absolutely no "crackdown" on Trump supporters in any organized fashion ever between his first election and when I woke up this morning. You're free to think otherwise, you might even be right, but if you want people to agree with you you better be prepared to convince them. And I could be wrong but I don't think calling them "fucking retards" is going to do it.

A bunch of claims made there with no evidence supplied to support any of them, and especially nothing linking domestic terrorism with run of the mill Trump supporters, although it's quite telling that one would make that conceptual leap, ostensibly to fuel some sense of personal grievance?

Based on first hand experience on the fringes of white supremacist organizations over the decades I'm totally unsurprised to hear law enforcement would have a hard time finding them in bulk as the percentage of people in the US who willingly harbor these kinds of views is a rounding error compared to the larger populace. It's actually pretty shocking how much trouble such a small group of people can cause on the rare occasion that they either muster the courage of their convictions and act on their beliefs or are goaded into action by law enforcement plants. In any case, trivializing these groups, either by dismissing their numbers or by trying to reframe them as mere "political opposition" is deeply stupid. These people are profoundly dangerous.

So....they arrested some white supremacist who were also simultaneously commiting other crimes?

When you find yourself aggressively defending scumbags, it's probably time for a good thorough reflection on your worldview.

ISIS-style groups hate 'fitnah' (fragmentation or sedition) and 'rafidah' (rejectors, of a certain succession), i.e. shiites, a perceived internal enemy of the ummah, more than they hate non-muslims. This makes Iran _the_ enemy, and enemies of the enemy tentative friends, and friends of the enemy enemies.

The US has never had any qualms cooperating with more or less nasty groups or regimes. They recruited the mafia to keep unions and socialists from gaining political power in Europe, exchanging a revival of the heroin trade for their own political gains.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com