ARC and PLC are projected to cost approximately $1.6 billion in 2025, which is more than triple their 2024 levels, but The American Relief Act of 2025 allocated $31 billion in ad hoc disaster aid to farmers. So maybe I was wrong about ARC/PLC being the principal method of subsidy?
> Under current law, USDA’s total outlays for 2025 are estimated at $231 billion. Outlays for mandatory programs are $189.6 billion, 82.1 percent of total outlays.[0]
0. https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2025-usda...
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03...
Folks act so salty about this all, such snark. But in my view so much was smartly done. There's so many layers of problems that needed to be tackled for consumers to actually get success, and it felt like these were gone through slowly carefully over time to make something useful and helpful.
For example, the charging standards require a certain amount of availability. Otherwise, folks might build some crappy chargers, not maintain them, and still claim money.
Folks have had all kinds of issues with chargers being not in service. Or fully used! One of the big requirements that took a while to hammer out was that chargers neede to live report their status: how many chargers are there, at what power outputs, at this location, and which are in use & what capacity is remaining? So you can get to the charger you are aiming for and have some real hope of charging up!
It's been just under two years since the standards got made. They're good, important standards, that insure this money was going to be for public benefit, that it really would tackle the problem. It is unsurprising as hell to me that there's not a ton of deployments yet!
For a "hacker news" site, I would expect a more reasonable set of expectations about product development lifecycle. Simply manufacturing compatible chargers is gonna take at least a year, in all probability. Site planning can somewhat happen in parallel, but going through the state to get the fed money is going to be a bit complex, especially at first. This stuff just takes time! The pool of money was mostly unspent, and I expect over time, as roll outs ramped up, the difficulty & costs would have been going down.
The political appetite & cycle is so contrary to the actual pace of the world some time. Sometimes we have to be willing to let good things take time to happen. It all felt so with-cause to me.
From Tesla's own website: "NACS was originally developed by Tesla, deployed in 2012 with the first Supercharger and Model S vehicle and eventually published by Tesla in 2022 with the goal of industry-wide adoption."
https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharging-other-e...
Tesla also has been operating on chargers for years! They took their own sweet time we just don't think about the first years!
Tesla never built standards. They just made something that sort of worked for them. That sort of somewhat helped some specific consumers find chargers, albeit with not enough status available to know what to expect when you got there.
None of that is at all good enough for actual infrastructure the world needs to be able to depend on. "Works for my car" isn't how gasoline works, and it's not how ev charging is gonna ever succeed.
Yes, that's exactly the problem, an over regulated permitting regime. If we are in a climate emergency then we should treat it as such, which means that if the Federal government can't overrule local permitting restrictions, they should prioritize funding to states that are willing to relax permitting requirements and get shovels in the ground.
Another comment [0] is lamenting because that is exactly what they did.
States could get funding if they built the stations, which includes figuring out any permitting issues.
As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions.
Over the course of the Biden-Harris Administration, the number of publicly available EV chargers more than doubled. With approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week, there are over 200,000 publicly available charging ports.
It's irritating to see Joe Rogan's moronic talking points repeated uncritically in these hallowed halls. Truly, as Brandolini[0] observed, public discourse is flooded with misinformation faster than we can bail it out.
That's not good for a law that was ratified in November of 2021. It might be about par for the course for the federal government, but that's the problem.
The trick being played here is counting all charging stations in the US and pretending they're part of the IRA's funding.
> As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions.
As of FY 2024, $2.385 billion had been allocated from the funding. For 61 ports across 4 (four) charging locations. $39M PER PORT.
This, per NEVI's own numbers: https://driveelectric.gov/files/nevi-annual-report-2023-2024...
I would sure like to see a breakdown in how that 2.3B was spent.
in accounting rules, it's spent money. the notes say that 61 ports have been built from that allocated money.
like I said, I would love to see the cost breakdown. is all that allocated money spent? are some projects still being constructed? three years seems like a long time to get 61 ports when you allocated $2B.
My guess would be that the money is also allocated for an X amount of sites / charging ports still in progress. Or do they only allocate the money after the site is fully operational?
If that's the case, I think saying '2B spent for 61 ports' is disingenuous at best.
From what I can tell from the newsletter I get from a big European charging infrastructure provider the lead time of a new charging location tends to be 1 - 2 years depending on the specific location.
While I do agree these numbers are disingenuous, looking at politics I definitely see the next administration counting the chargers that will come up past January 2025 to their win list. Oh well, I guess that's politics.
But a society cannot afford those cycles to play out for their food supply. Prices need to be stable and we need a slight oversupply of staples to be robust rather than perfectly efficient.
I’m not saying the subsidies are perfectly dialed in and that there’s no waste or pork. But some are very very necessary.