Comment by macartain | Hacker News Reader

Comment by macartain | Hacker News Reader

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Plus he also had the smarts to use plausible mechanisms to remove advanced computers (the Butlerian Jihad) and nuclear weapons (some sort of extreme taboo based on a historical event IIRC? it's been a while..) from the technologies available to the Dune universe. This allowed the exploration of all sorts of human developmental possibilities - the Bene Gesserit and mentats, advanced schools of martial art and mental discipline etc.

On the topic of the Butlerian Jihad, and its echo of the historic Islamic taboo on art representing living things - looking around the current world and bearing in mind how twisted out of shape our social conversation has arguably become so quickly given that iPhones only landed in 2007... you have to wonder whether it is such an outlandish idea. Looking at the news over the last few weeks and months makes me realise that it is incredibly hard to see outside your historical moment, until things just happen! There are many possibilities and reality can get weird...

The personal force-field shield was clever too. Removes bullets from the story, in favor of martial arts.

Force-field was innovative.

Every other fantasy-type movie in a modern setting I cannot take seriously...Avengers, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc.

Like, just use a gun. Whatever you were going to attack with, put that in a gun, and attack at 45rpm, 3000 ft/s.

> Force-field was innovative.

Yes, although the shields were fudged somewhat to allow knife fights. It would also seem that mankind lost the ancient secrets of body armour.

> Like, just use a gun. Whatever you were going to attack with, put that in a gun, and attack at 45rpm, 3000 ft/s.

There was even one Dr Who episode where the Daleks replaced their beam weapons with machine guns [0]. Although only because there was some sort of 'unknown force' that disrupted the guns without affecting the other Dalek systems.

[0] https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Death_to_the_Daleks_(TV_story...

> although the shields were fudged somewhat to allow knife fights

Right. Shields can protect against high velocity things, e.g. bullets or shrapnel. But not slow moving things, e.g. air and hands.

This contrivance means ancient weapons still have a purpose.

This effect is similar to non-Newtonian fluids. (In fact, there has been research into using non-Newtonian fluids for body armor [1].)

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> It would also seem that mankind lost the ancient secrets of body armour.

There are a few instances of armor in the movies (Harkonnens, Leo Atreides and Gurney Halleck, one of Paul Atreides' visions), but the books make virtually no mention of it.

The in-universe explanation is that the fighting style was much closer to ninjas than knights. Which means light-to-no armor was preferred.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_armor

Bret Devereaux has an interesting writeup on "The Problem with Sci Fi Body Armor" and discusses the Dune movie in detail.

https://acoup.blog/2024/11/29/collections-the-problem-with-s...

The fields didn't fully allow knife fights. High speed impacts the shield would repel but slow but strong movements with a knife could penetrate it. The way the movie at least justified disabling the shields was that the Fremen were seen to use laser weapons which in the Dune universe would cause a mini nuclear explosion if they hit a shield.

> Every other fantasy-type movie in a modern setting I cannot take seriously...Avengers, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc.

> Like, just use a gun. Whatever you were going to attack with, put that in a gun, and attack at 45rpm, 3000 ft/s.

This is one of the many reasons why I like the Dresden Files universe. Wizards wield incredible power, but a wizard can still be brought down by a sniper.

Nuclear weapons exist and are used, they call them atomics. I believe they are used to break into the city in the first book. The big taboo seems to be using them against people.

Correct. They nuke the rock wall to let the worms through.

It's less a taboo and more about MAD. The superpowers can't use them against each other, because then they'll get attacked by other superpowers sort of thing.

> and nuclear weapons (some sort of extreme taboo based on a historical event IIRC? it's been a while..)

If I recall correctly, they are banned from use on people because that's how the machines tried to annihilate mankind (it's been a while..)

> nuclear weapons (some sort of extreme taboo based on a historical event IIRC? it's been a while..)

They have them ("atomics"). If bored into the planet, they are powerful enough to split it.

The Great Convention (akin the Geneva convention) prohibited the use of atomics. A convention that...well, no spoilers.

> nuclear weapons (some sort of extreme taboo based on a historical event IIRC? it's been a while..)

They have them.

But there's a moral taboo and a practical MAD one.

are you telling us AI slop is not Haram?

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