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Comment by cookiemonsieur | Hacker News Reader

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If we want to argue historically, is it not more that the Taiwanese government is a more direct successor of the historical China? So maybe China should really be part of Taiwan? Or should it belong back to the Japanese?

Just goes to show how ridiculous arguments by "history" are.

"history" is what's trotted out when the right of self-determination needs to be ignored.

As though a people have no right to change their minds about their affiliation or government.

Taiwanese can decide to be more "Chinese" or not via votes. That's the main difference between Taiwan and China.

There's only the small issue that the people who live there don't want to be Chinese!

Considering they are one of the most democratic countries in the world (as per The Economist Democracy Index), even outranking the United States, I think they are more than capable of determining themselves what their future should be through their right of self-determination.

Is Ireland historically and culturally British? Sort of.

Is Czechia historically and culturally German? Sort of.

Is Ukraine historically and culturally Russian? Sort of.

Is Pakistan historically and culturally Indian? Sort of.

Once you have to ignore the wishes of the population and resort to historical arguments, forced reunification becomes a conquest.

I certainly wouldn't like my own government to start expansive wars into, say, Silesia, because it used to belong to the Czech crown for 500 years. But I have a say in this. The Chinese population might not.

Keep that same energy with israel then.

I bet you're located in the USA? Because nowhere else in the world would anyone even think that somehow logic, sanity and common sense should be suspended just because Israel is mentioned in a conversation.

> I bet you're located in the USA? Because nowhere else in the world

CCP and internet police are much more likely to use this logic than anti-Israel Americans. If they were, in fact, an American that was anti-Israel, they wouldn't be so riled up about defending the CCP first and foremost. I'm reminded of the island of Truth Teller and Liar problem: https://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/math-proof/truth-tel...

> an American that was anti-Israel.

My argument had nothing to do with pro or anti-Israel, I was just point out that I've only encountered this archiemedean lever/pivot point namely "Israel" in the USA.

It usually goes exactly like in this thread -- someone saying common sense things like not re-drawing borders and killing other humans today, just because something someone did 100 years ago -- and someone, from the opposite side (nothing to do with Israel) asks if this applies to Israel as well -- because they know damn well it applies to Israel and the point either puts Israel in a bad light or Israel would not like that particular point.

At this point if someone asks if "does this apply to Israel" it's usually the bad guys trying to use Israel's name as a logical nuclear weapon.

I was not saying that you were.

I was adding to your comment about OP.

You suspect OP to be based in American and influenced by some American line of reasoning towards Israel. I'm saying that someone from the CCP is more likely to change the target by attacking American hypocrisy towards Israel

It's also the case in Germany, but Germany sees Israel as a unique situation to which normal rules do not apply (and pointing out this contradiction may land someone in jail) and does not say "what about Israel?" when the context is any other country.

No problem. Neither of the current populations in Israel should have the right to ethnically cleanse the other one, regardless of historic demography in 1900 AD or 1 AD.

You're Chinese police aren't you? This seems to be the whataboutism script Chinese bots have been using on other social media platforms in recent months.

I don't support Israel. I just find it too obvious the way you try to shortcircuit and distract away from accusations towards the CCP by moving the point of contention elsewhere. Yes, America can be hypocrital but it doesn't change what people have said here about the CCP.

why don't let taiwan decide if they want to be ruled by ccp instead ?

Then China very much is the intruder in Tibet.

With that line of reasoning, you'll justify the CCP when they invade Vietnam after it's done with Taiwan.

Free Tibet first.

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