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Comment by cpach | Hacker News Reader

I tried uBlock Origin Lite for a very short time. Then I realized that in Lite, the user can’t add custom rules[0]. That’s when I had enough. So now I’m using Firefox instead, where I can use uBlock Origin.

[0] See https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1in2ls4/ubloc...

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I simply cannot give up the option of zapping distractions off of my screen. I really cannot understand how people can use Youtube or even a Youtube embedded video without zapping away the distractions. There is no way I'm coming back to Chrome if they don't support manifest V2. It's Firefox for me.

I'm also using it to remove distractions from stack exchange sites like hot network questions. I can stay focused on solving my problem much better if my eyes can't wander to interesting unrelated stuff.

And yet 99% of YouTube's users use it as is.

This comment reminds me of this George Carlin bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKN1Q5SjbeI

Many people are annoyed but 1) don't know there is any other way, 2) got used to it and the hassle of it is still worth it for them to get to watch the stuff they want.

I am in group 2)

You know about adblockers, right??????????? It isn't just YOutube, it's the entire internet these days!!

I use uBlock origin lite and there are no ads on youtube or embedded youtube videos

The parent comment is talking about distractions, not ads. YouTube has plenty of those, even embedded YouTube videos, unless you pause the video before it ends. uBlock Origin Lite cannot block elements except through packaged rulesets, and while there are some ad-blocker lists that are meant to block annoyances on pages in addition to ads, everybody has a different idea on what is an annoyance on a webpage.

exactly. I was not referring to ads, but to annoying suggestions in embedded videos (also when the video is paused!), and even to the long and mostly useless suggestions list on the right of the screen. I want to use YouTube as a useful tool, not to waste my time in endless loops of "oh, that looks interesting!"

There are ads, you wait for them to load, but they are not shown.

Just for the record: uBlock Origin Lite can block ads, but the user can’t add their own custom rules.

They mention "other browsers" in addition to Firefox that will continue to support Manifest v2, but I can't find a list. Does anyone know off-hand the additional browser options for Manifest V2 and multiple-OS support?

I think some Chromium-based browsers like Brave have pledged that they'll keep v2 around for as long as it's practical? Though IMO, people who depend on Manifest v2 with Chromium forks are running on borrowed time, Chromium moves fast and I can't imagine that keeping the Manifest v2 code working will be very easy. Especially if Google takes advantage of the limited access extensions now have to the HTTP request flow to do major refactors in that area.

Chromium browsers can't make that pledge and those that promised have red flags in my book.

1. These browsers can barely add their own functionality on top of upstream, and maintaining Manifest v2 compatibility may be expensive. Consider that the development of Chrome exceeds 1 billion per year.

2. They all use Chrome's Webstore as a distributing channel, except for Edge, but IMO, Microsoft has an even bigger interest in seeing uBO die.

Brave itself has ad-blocking built-in, which won't be affected, and it's fairly capable, but promising that they'll keep compatibility with uBO is a lie, if they ever made that promise.

I agree, and it seems like Brave agrees too. From https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/:

> For as long as we’re able (and assuming the cooperation of the extension authors), Brave will continue to support some privacy-relevant MV2 extensions—specifically AdGuard, NoScript, uBlock Origin, and uMatrix

I'm no fan of Brave, but it's nice to see that they at least somewhat acknowledge that they likely won't be able to support v2 forever. Only time will tell how long they're "able".

> Consider that the development of Chrome exceeds 1 billion per year.

1 billion what, LOC? Dollars? Downloads? Emails from the ad department demanding QoD improvements to Chrome?

Dollars, current estimates ranging between 1 and 2 billion.

Firefox is currently developed with half a billion, but IMO, that is why there are only 3 browser engines left, with all the “forks” depending on the upstream.

Yep, currently brave (and others I assume) switch it on at build time, when Google removes that from chromium they may move it to their patch set, but who knows how long they’ll keep that once it starts breaking.

The dynamic web request hook is the only thing still relevant in MV2, right? Are there any other features to be backported from MV2?

I've tried to understand what makes this so incredible impossible to maintain by asking people, I feels like FUD from the FF community (which I'm a part of) because it's all just wishywashy statements that it'll be impossible to maintain.

The reason all the statements are "wishywashy" is because it's impossible to say anything concrete here, we don't know what Google is planning to change in the future. But we know that Chromium is a huge, fast-moving code base, and that dynamic web request hooks require support from core parts of Chromium. If Google refactors or rewrites those core parts in a way which makes them incompatible with per-request dynamic hooks, keeping around v2 support means carrying huge patch sets against core parts of Chromium, forever. That's likely going to be a very large ongoing maintenance burden.

But Google haven't made those changes to how web requests are performed yet, so it's impossible to say how difficult it will be to add back whatever functionality is necessary to add back dynamic web request hooks. Maybe it'll turn out to be relatively easy, and maybe Google will leave that part of Chromium relatively unchanged for a long time. Only time will tell.

The best thing for Brave to do would just be to build it into their own ad blocker because Google is going to intentionally make it more and more impractical to support older extensions that interfere with their business model.

Brave and Vivaldi will continue to support it for some time. Brave also does not really depend on MV2 as they have their own adblocker (which is about as effective as uBO, I believe).

edit: link to their adblocker: https://github.com/brave/adblock-rust

Edit: I was wrong. See below.

Original comment: Brave's built in blocker is OK for what it does but I believe that it only replaces a subset of all uBO's features. For example I don't think that Brave's built in blocker has an element picker that lets you create cosmetic filters on the fly. I use that feature all the time in uBO.

Click the Brave shield icon, then select advanced controls, then at the very bottom you'll see "Block Element".

I haven't used it enough to know if it works like the uBlock one, but at least it is there.

Brave does have an element picker for creating cosmetic filters. It even works on Android, I just tried it.

You're right, I just found the option on desktop in the right-click context menu. According to some posts I've just found in the community forums, the feature was launched years ago but for some reason I had never noticed it even though Brave used to be my default browser until recently

Anything based on Firefox, like LibreWolf, as well

Arc (until they completely abandon it), Firefox, Orion.

For anyone else like me that hasnt tried uBO lite wondering what features are missing: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-as...

There seem to be quite a lot of other nice features which also do not work on Chromium-based browsers even with the v2 version of uBO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBlock_Origin#Limitations_in_C...

It’s only a matter of time before the modern Phoebus cartel starts blocking Firefox.

> It’s only a matter of time before the modern Phoebus cartel starts blocking Firefox.

I feel like nobody will have to consciously do anything in particular, with the current way how things are going.

- Chromium is the modern IE and developers will primarily be on the hook for supporting it, Firefox support will be an afterthought so some sites will just be broken, moving more users over to Chromium.

- The Firefox marketshare is dwindling, it's likely that the users with proper ad blocking will eventually be a rounding error and therefore quite inconsequential. Especially if there are any more ad-related APIs pushed by Chrome that make users more profitable (e.g. Topics API).

- Even among tech enthusiasts, Mozilla in particular doesn't have very good reputation (e.g. how much they spend on actually improving the browser vs other initiatives) and I don't see the marketshare of Firefox skyrocketing, unless something big happens. New competitors like Ladybird are also niche, though it's a really cool project.

- If Apple ever moves over Safari to Chromium, like Edge did, then that effect will only be amplified.

>Firefox marketshare is dwindling

It's basically non-existing already (less than 4% globally) [1] and with basically zero mobile presence.

[1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage#top-browsers...

In spite of its dwindling usage, Firefox is still used by more than a 100 million people on desktop.

I posted this comment some days ago [1]:

To put some numbers on what a 2.54% market share means, Firefox actually tracks this data. See here: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity:

> Monthly Active Users (MAU) measures the number of Firefox Desktop clients active in the past 28 days.

> February 10, 2025: 163,203,913 clients

> February 17, 2025: 163,742,671 clients

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43219572

Probably quite a few people like me who use both Chrome and Firefox.

Yet I genuinely don't understand how people can tolerate the modern web with ads?

It's possible some people accept it because they don't know any better, but I have never seen anyone going back once they realize it's possible to get rid of the pollution; I have never heard anyone say "where dit the ads go? I miss them".

So maybe it's just our responsibility as power users to educate our friends more?

The more people block ads, the bigger the incentive for companies to invest in blocking blockers. In a way, it's in the interest of power users to keep their tricks obscure so it's not worth to eliminate these options.

I honestly don't understand it either! I'm a screen reader user, and if I had to use the web without adblock, it would take me a lot longer!!! However, I have friends who also use screen readers who do!!

We were seen as failing a security audit recently for having firefox installed on some of the development laptops and got ordered to remove it by IT who conceeded that it was stupid but had to check boxes for insurance is ISO standards.

This causes the majority of people to only be exposed to Edge/IE or Chrome at work, and use their phones the rest of the time.

I hope you’re wrong but yeah, who knows. I’m glad that Ladybird is under active development and seems to be making progress.

I can live with that. By blocking Firefox they would self identify as user hostile in the same way that google has done with V3. I think this would a huge step forward, a massive shit filter.

A certain amount of websites are mandatory today, like local utilities, employer chosen health insurance, etc. I have to keep Chromium around for some that don't work right with Firefox.

After trying both, I prefer Matrix to Origin.

However I do not rely on extensions/add-ons as I believe extensions/add-ons are not the right solution. Unless the computer user is compiling the browser herself, extensions/add-ons can be crippled/disabled/etc. by whomever is distributing binaries. When the distributor is supported by online advertising as is the case for both Chrome and Firefox, and all the other so-called "modern" graphical browsers, this possibility cannot be ignored.

Many years ago I switched to chrome because ff felt sluggish. That’s all fixed since a long time. Not sure why so many seems to be choosing chrome today.

Chrome with Ublock origin works through June 2025, via "browsers using the ExtensionManifestV2Availability policy will be exempt from any browser changes until June 2025". Discussion on how to enable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41812638

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