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Comment by FirmwareBurner | Hacker News Reader

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To me, people who ever said or believed 'vote with your wallet' or 'consumers made their choice' then complained about boycott or people not buying/threatening not to buy specific brands are hypocritical (and those unaware of how hypocritical they are are just idiots, because it's obvious).

Count how many things you bought Made in China over the years, purchases that have been directly funding the CCP to commit actual genocide and crimes against humanity for years, then apply your anti-Tesla-owner logic to that fact, then look at the clown you see in the mirror because that's what you are with that logic when you apply it to yourself.

And with that egg on your face, hypocrites like you dare lecture people for buying a car brand, just because the company's owner raised his right arm. Two-faced cherry-picking hypocrites. You have no logical arguments, just cheap appeals to emotional manipulation. It's best to be quiet and let people assume you're stupid than talk and remove all doubt.

BTW, did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands? Why don't you all hate those users too using the same logic?

> You have no logical arguments, just cheap appeals to emotional manipulation

What? i mean, people who argue for "voting with their wallet" and then crying when people do just that are not hypocritical?

It seem very factual to me, where is the appeal to emotion? Is it on the "people who can't see how hypocritical it is are idiots" ? Where is the manipulation? I truly think that, i don't see a flaw in my logic there

> BTW, did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands?

Yes, as did Renault, and i own one (well, i share the ownership of one). Honestly i don't care (like i don't care about people buying Tesla or not), i don't think people should vote with their wallet, i'd rather have people go out and protest or organize, because action is better than passivity. I was never in the "consumer made their choice"/"vote with your wallet" crowd, i always tought it was a discussion closer that people used to avoid thinking about issues. I'm quite happy however than a part of that crowd show how hypocritical they are, and i try to make them remember that.

My comment wasn't aimed at you, i couldn't have known you ever said "vote with your wallet", but i make it my duty to remind people who say that they should then shut up about boycotts.

But i guess you will probably avoid responding to that comment now that you understand how wrong you are (THIS is emotional manipulation, or a bad attempt at it :D)

You're entitled to your own opinion, but one of the few things you can do as an individual is choose carefully what you buy.

I do care, and I understand why many people do care as well. But again, it's your right not to care.

Strong brands and marketers disagree with your perception of brands. People buy brands, they buy stories, they want to support what they like.

>getting me from A to B safely and cheaply

And how do you expect that to be true when Elon, through his political power, has all regulators under his thumb?

Ah, the irony of suggesting anyone who isn't thoughtlessly consuming is an "NPC"

You’re not going to guilt anyone into buying a Tesla.

Even if you see it as a white good and not as activism then surely the fact that the resale value will be much lower may assist your decision, unless you're being an activist and choosing the car specifically for what it stands for, no?

What about the activism in your comment? I don't own a Tesla but why would you care about what I do with my money?

It's called silent complicity, have you read the "First, they came for" poem?

You're free to (legally) spend your money how you want, but other people are free to form an impression you and adjust their interactions with you as a result. The car you buy shouldn't subject you to physical violence, but it's perfectly acceptable for people to choose not to associate with you or do business with you as a result and that's a consequence of choices you make.

Then I'm happy I don't have shallow friends who judge people based on the car they drive.

Did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands?

Do you really know that for sure? Have you asked them if they'd think less of you if you bought a Tesla now?

I judge people by their actions, not the sins of their parents. The companies you list aren't run by the same people, so your question is irrelevant. If Tesla were to toss out Musk and ensure he has no influence then people would likely stop judging Tesla owners the same way they do today.

I'm responding to your comment in a public forum - why would you specifically choose the chance of a low return on your money vs other cars unless you're specifically choosing to be an activist, that's not activism?

> To me, a car is a white good... As long as it fulfills my needs, getting me from A to B safely and cheaply, that's all I care.

Given that the resale value is the most significant factor of "cheaply" in a £40,000 asset, a negative brand image is an important factor here - even if you consider your fellow citizens to be NPCs.

Not everyone Posts critisism at Starbucks.

And yes people care. They can't always care to different reasons but doing something is better than nothing.

But good for you being condescending and making it clear that you don't do anything.

What's wrong with making just one moral choice? Isn't it better than making zero moral choices?

People do what they can, based on what they believe is right (which you may well disagree with), their knowledge, skills, money and time available. That may not be all that much, they might be ill informed, but it is _something_. Perfect is the enemy of good.

Not giving a cent to Elon Musk seems like a reasonable cause if you believe he's gonna use that money for nefarious things. And at least for the things he's (very) publicly involved in, it's quite easy. Most people doing nefarious things do it in the shadows, and are funded in difficult to understand ways.

People judging each other for who they support by giving them money seems fair. You make some great points about what else they would probably see as problematic. This sounds like it could be a fruitful conversation without the name calling.

I don’t take my microwave out in public.

So then you agree with me that's it's all optics and virtue signaling rather than any ethics based in logic.

I disagree with your assertion that optics and “virtue signalling” are not based in logic.

What's the logic that you used? I never saw any.

When you buy something, you do participate in the cash flow that makes the seller/builder company function.

If that company has other activities or influences that you do not agree on, boycotting is not virtue signalling, it's voting with your money.

And while protesting some system from a place built with it may not be perfect, it is still better than refraining from protesting at all, if one has reasons to.

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