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Comment by null_investor | Hacker News Reader

Remember that... we don't have numbers yet from Tesla in Europe after Musk did the Sieg Heil.

I live in Europe and people absolutely went batshit crazy about it, not only in Germany. People really despise that gesture.

I'm willing to bet sales in Europe for Tesla FY2025 will be terrible.

I know many Tesla owners here that are considering selling the car because they are also afraid of the car dropping even further in price because too many people will want to sell it.

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I'm in the Netherlands and the used market for Tesla has already dropped like a rock. It is flooded with cars from leasing companies who after 5 years now want to sell them on for deprecation and tax purposes.

Yup, you can pick up Teslas cheap in the UK now ... and I still won't buy those PoS's ...

This is comforting, as an Argentinian living in Germany. 1 out of 5 people here voted for the AFD...

On average, yes. But if you look on a voting map[0], you'll notice that the majority of those votes comes out of the former DDR. In many other areas, much less than 1 in 5 voted for the brownshirts.

[0]: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlkreiserg...

If you look even deeper, at people's actual attitudes[1], you'll see that far-right positions are approx. equally distributed in Eastern and Western Germany - the kind of people voting AfD in Eastern Germany (currently) just vote CDU in Western Germany.

[1] = Leipziger Autoritarismus-Studie, https://www.boell.de/de/leipziger-autoritarismus-studie

Yes. But: The map does not reflect polulation density. (Which is rather low)

DDR is not a proper Germany, cant count them

No, the point I am making is that it very much depends on their location if this "1 in 5"-average is even remotely true. And looking at overall population statistics and concentration of jobs, it's comparatively likely that somebody migrating to germany is _not_ in those areas.

And I do think that's important to point out.

But immigrants do not vote unless they become citizens, do they?

I was originally replying to this comment:

>> This is comforting, as an Argentinian living in Germany. 1 out of 5 people here voted for the AFD...

My fundamental aim here was to show the poster, that it's likely not as bad where they are - and since they are a migrant, I assumed that they were likely not in those really bad areas. Intended as a positive message. Sadly, I apparently butchered the delivery of this message, as several people interpreted it completely differently.

What about Germans living in Argentina? :)

What about operation paperclip?

Lmao

And 4 out of 5 didn’t.

Thank you, I know how to count. Previous election AFD had half the votes, so what is this "4/5 glass full" comment about?

You have 4 years to address the issue, but instead chose resignation. Rather than collaborating with the other three to help guide the fifth away from radical positions. Now is probably the easiest time to do something against it before it's 2 out of 5 or even worse. What did YOU do in the last 4 years?

paid my taxes and chose public health instead of private so oma und opa could get medical attention they deserve. And now planning on moving to Ireland.

I cannot address the issue because between family and work and interviewing, time is out. I don't speak German, I can't vote.

I'd like to understand if your comment is coming from a German or not.

You've done only the bare legal minimums required to stay in the country. As a non-resident, you would also face challenges obtaining private insurance that provides the same level of care as state insurance for the same price. When fighting fascism, that effort is insufficient. I hope you find time to take up the fight when you're in Ireland, before there are no countries left to escape to. Good riddance.

> Good riddance.

.... ok?

edit:

> guide the fifth away from radical position

naive.

What to do you expect? You are crying about the society in a country you are residing in while not integrating into said society (at least learning the language) nor trying to mend it in any other way. Your first reaction is to leave it behind like you did with your own home country. I would take a sharp look at myself and my convictions before complaining about others if I were you.

You know what? You remind me of a middle aged woman who approached me screaming in January 2021 in a station in the U7 in Berlin.

I was lost, looking at a map when a woman approached me. I first thought she was looking to help me, but she came screaming in German WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT FACE MASK, THIS IS GERMANY, YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW OR GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

The facemask I was using was a special face mask developed in Argentina: https://www.conicet.gov.ar/scientists-developed-anti-viral-f...

Of course the woman did not have any idea about that. But instead of asking nicely, she started screaming at me.

You remind me of her alright!

edit: also, giving opinions about my person when you don't know how or why I emigrated from the country I was born and lived for 30 years is in bad taste and reeks of Euro privilege. check YOUR privilege.

The technology of the linked facemasks was novel at the time but they were never certified as medical masks (I used them myself before medical masks were mandatory.), neither in Argentina nor in the EU while also looking like simple cloth masks. At the time she was right to say that you were not following the law. She was not right to say that you should leave the country but I bet you are also not telling us the whole interaction of your anecdote.

Based solely on our discussion, there appears to be a strong sense of entitlement in your positions and a reluctance to acknowledge your own failings while quick to point out procedural errors by others.

> Based solely on our discussion, there appears to be a strong sense of entitlement in your positions and a reluctance to acknowledge your own failings while quick to point out procedural errors by others.

> reluctance to acknowledge your own failings

> I bet you are also not telling us the whole interaction of your anecdote

oh well...

The interaction was exactly that. She only said the words I quoted and left, while I stayed petrified after my first xenophobic encounter in Germany. Only when she was far away I reacted and yelled at her an argentinian insult that has no translation, out of frustration and fear. So typical for a lot of Germans and Argentinians to fake being demented when you tell them there is a racism or xenophobic problem. "surely you misremember", "surely that was not all the dialogue", "I never have seen a racist in my whole life" (ok that last one actually is hyperbolic).

Of course the mask itself was not FFP2 in an official manner, that is a fact today and at that time. That lady had no idea and should have explained to me how important it is for people in Germany to follow the law, no matter what. Instead, she reacted like that. Of course I was in the wrong, and quickly procured myself an FFP2 mask as soon as I could.

You know why I'm leaving Germany?

Because I could not adapt to the culture. I could not learn the language.

Why Ireland? Because I have family there, because I speak their language, because people don't stare at me 24/7 on public transport, because the border police are not mini-dictators that when educated about their own laws scream at you WELCOME TO GERMANY while angrily smashing your Argentinian passport into the small table at the booth. (Now that I am a Polish citizen, I can avoid interacting with those mini dictators. Isn't that what I am supossed to do? Not stay in a country I could not adapt to? I gave it a few years, but family members dying 1000's of kilometers away from you take a toll.

What is YOUR problem, dude? Any more comments on how should I live my life?

Stop being like that, please... Engage in some empathy. Put yourself in someone else's shoes for once.

This seems to be your first sincere comment in this thread, and I'll leave it at that for everyone else to see.

> Any more comments on how should I live my life?

I would also suggest you stop demanding empathy when you demonstrate none yourself. Regarding your anecdote - do you know if that woman was clear minded? Do you know if she hadn't lost a family member to COVID the day before? This highlights the fundamental problem with anecdotal evidence: we can talk in circles, and none of it establishes a meaningful point.

> Stop being like that, please... Engage in some empathy. Put yourself in someone else's shoes for once.

You're right about one thing: I struggle to show empathy for someone who complains about racism while exhibiting racist behavior themselves.

Around 50% of the population has an IQ of less than 100.

This just inspired my curiosity, How well normalized is IQ, is it persistent over time, or does the curve meander.

In France, Tesla Model Y is -57% (compared to Jan '24) at 640 units in January, while other brands are growing at 2813 (Renault 5), 1548 (Citroen E C3), 1177 (Renault Scenic), 762 (Peugeot 3008), among others.

Source: https://www.autojournal.fr/environnement/voitures-electrique...

> I know many Tesla owners here that are considering selling the car because they are also afraid of the car dropping even further in price because too many people will want to sell it.

I know some who are considering selling the car because they are afraid of what other people will think knowing they drive a Tesla.

I would encourage you to watch the whole video of the incident, with sound, and then put your hand on your heart and honestly say you think that was a sieg heil. (but don't throw it to the crowd after)

It was not a coincidence that it looked like one. Nobody with knowledge of contemporary history would make a gesture that could be interpreted as "Sieg Heil" by mistake at an event that is watched worldwide.

I've watched it, many people have, and have still firmly concluded it was a purposeful action. It's debatable whether it was a true "I'm a Nazi" move or a "I'm a troll" move but the smirk on the face, the long, long history of trolling and antagonizing opponents, the previous comments from Musk that the left was calling him a Nazi, etc... all indicate that he intentionally did something provoking.

This is even more true for the latest copycats from CPAC, which show that the Fascist salute is being normalised and becoming a MAGA symbol. Think about that. Whatever Elon's original intent, the American right is now knowingly doing the fascist salute, not as satire but as a open sign of their politics and provocation to their opponents.

Wanna explain this white supremacy dog whistle?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

https://theconversation.com/musks-inauguration-salute-is-not...

I watched the video with sound quite a few times. It was totally heil hitler salute. (Not to bring up the statement Elon made about how Germans should stop apologizing for holocaust. At that point even the anti-defamation league gave upon him. Elon is fascist to the core)

I don't understand why modern day Germans would have to apologise for the holocaust either, maybe I'm out of touch.

I also don't know why HN keeps these Elon posts up because they're always a shit-show of reddit-ness and I believe most other similarly high-conflict subjects would have been nixed by now.

I would encourage anyone who thinks it was not a Nazi sieg heil to go into work and do the exact gesture in front of your boss, and then report back here on what happens.

Actually, I think they went "batshit sane", what other reaction could a sane person have after seeing that happening on live TV, during the POTUS investiture?

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