Hacker News Reader

Comment by tekla | Hacker News Reader

This is only secret to people who have money.

Its been well known for 50 years that poor students with good grades get pretty much full rides to top tier schools due to scholarships.

View on HN

The article disagrees:

> One study found that most high-achieving, low-income students chose not to apply to highly selective colleges with steep sticker prices. They opted instead for schools with lower sticker prices that ended up offering much less financial aid and thus costing more.

The other not-so-secret is that small private liberal arts don't necessarily have stickers all that much lower than the top schools--and, as you suggest, they're much less able to provide financial aid than schools with multi-billion dollar endowments.

Yes, this was my own experience!

When looking at universities, when I saw a high sticker price, I ignored that university, even if in hindsight I had a good chance of being accepted.

I wish I had had someone when I was young who encouraged me to have broader horizons.

I have some regrets about my choice of undergrad school, but it isn't because I went someplace cheap. I could have gone to one of the multiple state schools that would have given me half off just for being born somewhere.

Instead, I went to a school that was in my home town. I learned things when I went to college, but that school was objectively the wrong choice. Not only did it cost double what the state school would have cost[0], I missed out on the reason young people ought to go to college in the first place: a once in a lifetime chance to spend 4 years hanging out and making friends with high achieving people who would go on to shape the face of the world.

Granted, one of my college friends ended up as a senior researcher studying cancer, and another went on to work for Mozilla, but I'm pretty sure in my class of ~300, there weren't too many CTOs, VPEs, star researchers, etc. Simply going to a bigger school would have been a better choice; going to a school that was both bigger and better than my undergrad institution would have been the best choice.

I guess that's what you get when society expects a 17-year-old to make what may be the single most impactful life choice they'll ever have. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

That said, going to a small liberal arts college had its advantages. I learned a lot. Some of that stuff I learned, I've even gotten to use once or twice. But, looking back, if I could send my past self a message back in time, I'd tell me to go somewhere else. I may not have been much better off financially if I had met someone in college at 20 who talked me into partnering up on some insane business venture or something, but that experience would have been priceless.

[0]: This was even after I got a scholarship that reduced my estimated family contribution to 2/3 of what the sticker price was, on top of being able to stay at home and save money that way.

This is what I did.

My parents also told me college doesn't matter, just the degree (which was their way of saving money). Not that they paid a dime anyways, they just always felt comfortable lying to me if it saved them any amount of trouble.

One of the most unpleasant surprises I had when researching colleges for my kids was how little merit aid is offered by not just "top tier" but good colleges in general.

Our state school does not have much merit scholarships (and I'm not talking about $500 per year for 4.0 GPA/1500+ SAT, which is not even available to all applicants, that's just insulting). There are colleges which are definitely in the bottom of the rankings where you can get in with 0 tuition or even full ride (no tuition+free room and board) AND you can get some stipend thrown on top. I now have a choice: pay $45K (tuition with room and board) per year for my very academically strong kids at my (reasonably good) state school or $0 at the likes of Alabama, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Florida, and to a smaller extent Arizona and Texas (well the last ones would not be free, but at least less than half of the state uni). What do you think I will encourage my kids to do???

For what it's worth, I went to University of Arizona (math) and I've done great in life. They and Rochester are the two main schools that specialize in optics (e.g. lasers and photonics and complex lens systems, not eyeglasses) as far as I know if that's an interest. Otherwise, if you have some time left to plan, see if you can reduce your income (e.g. by moving to part time work, planning to do a sabbatical, or retiring if possible) to avoid the shakedown.

My oldest wants to do aerospace, my understanding is that Arizona is fairly good and has some connections to the industry. They slashed their merit aid last year though due to financial problems and the advice I read is to steer clear for at least couple years until they get the house in order.

We're looking at Alabama at this point, either Tuscaloosa or Huntsville, I think they're even less known/lower ranked but not that bad for aerospace. That'd likely be full ride (national merit semifinalist or finalist).

The advice about lowering income is valid. I don't even have to do anything the shitty IT jobs market took care of that for me :(

4.0 GPA isn't what they are looking for. Rich kids have the money, but not talent. Poor kids have talent, but not money. MIT and the like is a place where the two can meet and work together. They don't need a high GPA, they need a seriously gifted student.

Can you clarify what you mean by "gifted" student? How is the "giftedness" measured, aside from GPA, SAT/ACT? I mean there's also extracurriculars, but there's usually a strong correlation between high GPA/SAT and strong extracurriculars. Or maybe I misunderstood your point.

GPA/SAT tell how good you are at following instructions: learning mildly complex material and applying it to a variant of a well known problem. It's a measure of fitness for white collar workers. What MIT is looking for is outstanding ability to create something new, something that those white collar workers with good GPAs cannot come up with. This kind of talent shows in various hobby projects that have a potential to become something big.

I think the line has shifted though as have, perhaps, expectations of work-study. And more or less everyone at a lot of elite schools (OK, leave out legacies, athletes perhaps, etc.) had pretty top grades; they wouldn't have gotten in otherwise.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com