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Comment by everdrive | Hacker News Reader

People are writing this off, but it eventually becomes impossible not to own a smartphone; an expensive device, with an expensive monthly plan, and an absolutely terrible privacy record. Eventually more businesses will require smartphone usage just to use their services. There could even be a time when government services require it.

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A landline phone is about the cost of a cheap smartphone, and the landline itself costs about as much as the cheapest cell plans.

But you actually don't need either of those. You just need the cheapest Android cellphone or tablet you get, and access to someone's wifi, which is freely available at many coffee shops, or from neighbors.

I still agree you shouldn't need it, especially if you already have a computer. But it's only "expensive" if you choose the higher tiers.

> You just need the cheapest Android cellphone or tablet

So no security updates and any app can stop working any moment. And all your data are at Google, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

A landline phone doesn't spy on you, and has often better audio quality (unless you're in an area with great cell coverage). And you can also use the mobile network with a "feature phone", like those that were around until smartphones arrived, they're still around.

> But you actually don't need either of those. You just need the cheapest Android cellphone or tablet you get, and access to someone's wifi, which is freely available at many coffee shops, or from neighbors.

The cheapest device you can get will be unusably slow - good luck doing anything out and about without inconveniencing everyone else while you wait for your device to load and pray the app opens in a timely fashion. Oh, that is, if your outdated device can even download and run it.

Access to wifi isn't really as ubiquitous as you make it seem either - what if the business you're needing to use the app for doesn't have wifi? Run down the street to the coffee shop?

The UK is an incredibly competitive and well-regulated market. If you're in receipt of welfare benefits, you can get a tariff with unlimited 5G data for £12 ($15) per month. If you're a light user, you can get a tariff with a few gigabytes of data for as little as £5 ($6.50) per month.

https://smarty.co.uk/social-tariff

A cheap but perfectly useable phone costs less than £100 new from a brand like Xiaomi, Motorola or TCL; on any high street, you'll find a shop selling second-hand phones for as little as £30. I cannot think of any object in human history that provides so much utility for so little money.

This is actually something the US does pretty well, actually. The Lifeline Assistance Program (colloquially known as "Obama Phones") gives low income people (basically anyone who qualifies for food stamps) a phone, with calling and internet, at no cost to the individual.

I wouldn't bet on that being around much longer, because for some reason it makes a lot of conservatives absolutely seethe. Many of them convinced themselves poor people were being given the latest luxury model iphone out of taxpayer funds.

Totally true that smartphones are useful. But people can decide they don't want one for many reasons, including not wanting to accept 20-pages-long T&C just to turn them on, and surrendering lots of personal data. If you're a lot into tech stuff, you might go around that by blocking most data collection, but most people don't have the competence for this, or have better things to do with their lives.

if only i was that simple. you will still need to swap it for a newer phone every once in a while when the OS stops being supported, and have to transfer the apps and auth to the new device which is not always straight forward

Depending on where you live, a smartphone can be bought for 100 bucks and a basic line (voice, messages, 2GB of data) for less than 5 bucks. It's not ideal but it's not a sacrifice anymore.

You can also use wifi. Even free wifi. You can get a very nice used phone with many years of updates for 100 dollars. You can find a worse phone for much less if you really want to.

edit: You can even get a free phone from your community. Possibly a better one than the a53. Most people have a phone or several in a drawer.

https://swappa.com/listings/samsung-galaxy-a53-5g?carrier=un...

Quite true, to the point that my data plan is not used much (I'm way below the 2G threshold) because I'm mostly indoor when I fetch a lot.

Yeah, but you need to be lucky for free wifi to be available for apps that you need to use in specific locations, like the parking meter app.

A parking spot that requires an app is certainly onerous, even for a smartphone owner.

A good point, but also a parking spot like that which is also not in range of city wifi is pretty rare, I'd reckon.

If having a smartphone and a cellular plan will become an absolute requirement to partake in the society, carriers certainly are going to hike prices. Here in Finland, cellular plans used to be very cheap, but now the prices have been soaring after the society has become more and more reliant on the phones.

Hmm yeah, usual free market trickery. In France one telco operator forced a 2euro/month minimal plan so everybody can get minimum access.

Before that, government services required phone calls, or fixed addresses to receive mail, or a free public transit program to get people to government buildings. Comparatively, it's a lot easier and cheaper to just give the needy smartphones and data plans. Hence the Lifeline Assistance Program (Obama phones), which does just that.

This has always been the case though. Before the smartphone, it was computers and internet; before that it was landline phone service. Both of the latter were far more expensive than a modern smartphone, so we are actually making progress in reducing barriers to social participation.

Landlines didn't spy on people. Computers and Internet, well, depends on which OS you are on, but there are options that don't. What about smartphones? IMHO that's the big issue, not what they cost.

Internet browsers exist for many OSes. To use a web-based service, you don’t need a mandatory account with a platform tech giant.

Almost all mobile apps today are Android/iOS only and require an App Store/Play Store account.

Can't say they are expensive anymore, you can get an updated android phone for less than $50 new or less second hand.

Can't say about monthly plans, as that depends on the country.

Privacy is a different matter and always dependent on the technical literacy as opposed to hard costs.

It's still an additional 'tax' on individuals.

Anything can be a "tax", if we want it to be.

Is the requirement of wearing clothes in public a tax? Maybe.

But today definitely someone can still live without owning a phone, if they have access to a computer nearby (e.g. A library or friend).

As I noted in my other comment, you don't even need a cell plan. You can just use wifi. Your own, your neighbor's, a nearby coffee shop, etc.

This isn't necessarily the case; many services will require a registered phone number.

I think that ends up pretty nuanced. A cheap $50 Android will receive security updates for one year if you're lucky. So now you have a choice between buying a new cheap phone yearly, forgoing security, or being technically savvy enough to put a 3rd party OS on your phone. With regard to privacy, smart phones really don't have options for privacy unless you go with a 3rd party OS. And, if you do so, you might not even be able to run the various apps which the various businesses require. I just don't see this as a valid alternative.

The larger point is that to use the mainstream apps you would buy a smartphone for, you are forced into a contract (or at least to agree to terms of service) with one of two third parties, Apple or Google.

You can get a cheap 100$ smartphone with cheap prepaid plan.

Which phone costs $100 that isn't a POS? Honest question because even my discounted mid range motorolla is starting to struggle with some apps.

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