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Comment by amluto | Hacker News Reader

I’m not a chemist, but:

As I understand it, the biggest source of lead that gets inside people is paint, especially where windows rub against it. And sometimes lead paint has been painted over but can still become airborne when abraded. I would be surprised if these tests can detect it.

Get an XRF test instead — this will quantify the amount of lead at or even under the surface. You can do this by getting a lead testing contractor to come over, and a friendly one will test as many spots as you like in a single visit. Or I suppose you could try to buy the machine, but it isn’t cheap.

(Wirecutter says the main ingredient in these fluorescence tests is methylammonium bromide.)

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Unfortunately I couldn't find anyone to show up with an XRF kit - nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously.

In France we have obligatory 'diagnostic' of house sold, including many thing like asbestos but also lead paint.

We use a 20 000€ machine with radioactive material to measure the amount of lead, so not everyone can get it but you can definitely ask a technician to do it.

Cost around 300€, depends of the house size and he checks every single part of every single room that can contain lead paint. Very tedious.

I know that the same laboratory we send asbestos for measurement also did lead measurement.

If you got only a few place you are concerned, you could scrape it yourself and sent it to them.

Otherwise it's considered that lead in paint is only dangerous when the paint is old and it fall down, so that kids could eat it or if you're repainting the window and you scrub it without mask.

To my knowledge, the lead pipe are much more dangerous because there is nothing you can do. It's all city property and even if you don't drink city water, you still get poisoning from factory and restaurant using that water to make food.

> We use a 20 000€ machine with radioactive material

I’m reasonably confident that these machines use electrically powered X-ray generators and that no radioactivity is involved.

you are reasonably wrong then. my device has a cadmium 109 source, emitting 740 MBq when i bought it.

Lumping up all "Europe" into one is quite misleading. For example in France when buying/selling a property a detailed lead investigation performed by a professional is obligatory. To the level of what wall has what concentration. Plus all explanation of potential risks, etc.

How carefully you read and understand a report depends on multiple factors, but definitely there are many people in Europe that take lead paint seriously.

I think this extends beyond lead. Americans love tests, and Europeans are more like the person that is scared of going to the doctor because who knows what they will find.

> nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously

Do you live in an older property or do you think there might be a significant amount of lead-containing paint in your living/working environment?

(Not suggesting lead isn't a problem, but I've dealt with a bunch of much, much more toxic substances [full disclosure: PhD Chem])

FWIW, the UK banned lead paint over 30 years ago, lead water pipes 55 years ago, and leaded petrol 25 years ago.

There's a paper suggesting lead pollution may be approaching natural background levels https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i40/Lead-pollution-approache...

Yes, and we owned a 200 year old cottage in Ireland that definitely had leaded paint, and I needed to take paint chips and mail them to the US to get them tested because nobody in Ireland took me seriously. I had a newborn at the time, too.

> we owned a 200 year old cottage in Ireland that definitely had leaded paint [..] I had a newborn at the time, too

Not a great combo.

"In the home, lead pipes, red lead paint on metal work, leaded paint on windowsills, bannisters, door frames and doors can still exist. Lead paint was common before the 1970s and although lead paint has not been used after 1992, prior to this UK paint may have contained up to 50% lead by weight (500,000 mg/kg), which is potentially capable of causing lead poisoning in a small child if they eat just a single flake. Leaded paint at these concentrations may still be found in non-remediated Victorian properties, often below newer non-leaded paint."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/lead-poisoning-ad...

and

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/lead-exposure-in-...

Although one shouldn't underestimate potential lead contamination in soils, too. As an undergrad I recall doing a lab in which we had to look for heavy metal contamination in the soil in a nearby public park, starting at the edge of the park right next to a busy road, and then taking samples towards the centre of the park. Unsurprisingly there was measurably higher contamination close to the road, falling away with distance from the road.

Nobody there will be wanting to tell ye about mycotoxins produced by water-damaged building materials over 35%-50% indoor humidity, either.

Because there is no evidence that they harm the majority of people in real environments? That is, they typically never reach concentrations high enough to be a concern.

Good luck.

We did a lot to address that issue, at least.

For the reader: can only replace the building materials, or move, to address this issue.

You could probably mitigate that with an oil-based primer and then oil- or water-based topcoats depending on the compatibility of the primer. I've gotten good adhesion on old oil-based paints just washing them with TSP substitute and then priming over the top without scuff-sanding.

Surprising, since the EU near-total ban on lead.

Was lead paint as widespread in Europe as it was in North America?

It varied by region. The Netherlands banned it almost a century ago. Ireland in the early 90's IIRC.

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