Comment by bradhe | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bradhe | Hacker News Reader

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I’m an American living in Germany for the past 4 years. I moved here from the west coast after I sold my last startup because I wanted a new, different kind of adventure. I don’t see myself going back to the US any time soon, but I’m actively working on relocating to the UK.

My wife and I want to move there because we want to be somewhere more English speaking. I speak German well enough, but she’s really struggled. Truth is, it’s really difficult to integrate into a society if you don’t speak the language at a high level. And after around year 2.5 or 3 I really started thinking hard about integration.

The political situation in Germany is a bit of a struggle, but coming from the US…this is a cake walk. I’m so happy to not have to deal with American politics on the regular.

Economically speaking, there are obviously way more opportunities in the UK, especially for my wife who works in HR given the language requirement. In the tech ecosystem in Germany, it’s two-tiered: The really good engineers make a wage comparable to the US. Think like tier 2 or tier 3 cities like Dallas or Miami. I says it’s about 70% of the Bay Area. But the VAST majority of engineers, working for German companies, make way less. Average wage is probably €70k?

Obviously, your euro goes massively further here as compared to the UK and US. My point in all this is that it’s really difficult to actually compare apples to apples, what your quality of life will be based on your salary and cost of living alone in different parts of the world.

You will earn 1/3 of what you could in the U.S. in the UK. You will pay much more in taxes and have much higher fixed real estate expenses (mortgage, lease etc). Your economic opportunities will cease to exist. Your standard of living will drop and stall. You will have “free” healthcare which basically just seeks to triage you with “holistic” (I.e. free) solutions until your symptoms manifest as life-changing. You will experience some of the worst weather on the planet. Ignore the noise online. Avoid the UK and go home.

I am no fan of the UK but "worst weather on the planet"? The UK's greatest fault is that it is mediocre, it is uninspired, it is neither good nor bad, it is a place with so much potential that realises so little of it.

If economic opportunity is your motivation then the U.S. is a much better place to be than the UK, but if you'd just like to live a normal life with healthcare and a house, the UK is a far better place to be than the U.S for most people. "Economic opportunity" as a motivator is itself a U.S. mindset.

Or you may not have this experience at all. The weather is not nearly as bad as claimed. The healthcare has its issues, but not having to divest your life savings for an unexpected trip to the hospital is a good thing. Standard of living can be very high. You will have a huge public transport network, bike friendly cities, some of the best culinary spots in the world, plenty of nature and green spaces, social activities, endless arts & culture, free museums in the capital.

Source: an expat living permanently in the UK.

Meanwhile America is being driven into the ground by Trump and Elon.

I have many expat friends living in London, which honestly is part of the motivation to move, and what you're describing is my expectation. Likewise agree that I don't think others commenting on this thread fully grasp what a uncontrolled disassembly the US is going through right now. Completely unprecedented.

Expats or immigrants? The use of the word expats feels a bit iffy to me.

Ad an expat/immigrant, I'll tell you my personal working definition, based only on my experience:

An immigrant is one who moves from a poorer country to a richer country. An expat is one who mixes from a richer country to a poorer country.

One cool feature of my definition is that it explains a lot of the cultural subtleties in comparing these groups: how immigrants adopt the local ways much more than expats do (expats retain that touch of superiority) etc etc

On average, every situation is different, this is just my general rule of thumb pattern I've observed.

It's a bit of a different thing. Expat implies working there for a few years before going home, immigrant implies moved permanently. Most Americans in London are the first one.

You will get FREE healthcare as in if you need an ambulance ride you won't be charged 10k$

America is failing currently, putting vaccine deniers in charge of Healthcare, destroying its school system, destroying rule of law and legal system. It is generally in a self destruct more. Likewise, removing customer protections and acting destructively towards economy.

There is a question how much it destroys other countries too, but the fall of us is pretty much granted.

Proof any of that

Per capita GDP on par with Mississippi, half the sunny days of Seattle. 20% sales tax (VAT) after approx 50% total income tax.

Ironically.. Seattle gets more rain than London.

And yet, London is one of the top 5 Great Cities of the world. For that reason alone the UK is worth considering.

Put away your 1960s travel guide.

According to GaWC's 2024 city classification, London and NYC are the only "Alpha++" cities in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities...

Subjectively, I visited London twice over the last year and it felt fun and bustling.

>The Globalization and World Cities Research Network (GaWC) is a British think tank that studies the relationships between world cities in the context of globalization. It is based in the geography department of Loughborough University in Leicestershire, United Kingdom

I had to wonder why London would rated be above Tokyo and I had my answer immediately.

Here's a Vancouver based one putting London top https://www.worldsbestcities.com/rankings/worlds-best-cities...

personally I think #1 is overdoing it even though I live there but probably top 5. Depending what you prioritize.

Isn’t Canada part of the English empire?

Why would Tokyo be rated higher than London in the globalization index? (Asking honestly.)

Well two posts ago you said London was one of the world’s great cities. Not that it was the most open to economic globalization which is a vastly different point to try to make.

The first two sentences of the wiki reveal both the British nature of the publication and its focus not on great cities but on measuring how large cities are open to investment and trade from foreign markets.

This is as close to approaching no one’s definitions of a great city as I am aware.

People wealthy enough to live anywhere they want, often move to London. Or an island off of Miami.

Have you tried living in the UK? I'm from Sweden and frequently visit make long visits for work. There is no way I could live there for prolonged times. YMMV.

I haven't tried yet, but I have loads of expat friends that are living there right now.

The UK experience varies quite a lot depending on the details. It helps to have a bit of money so you can buy a house or similar. Also personally I like london but find middle of nowhere England boring.

I think most remarks here about the UK health system are apocryphal. My real experience is that it is very good. It is true they don't waste money, but for real issues they are excellent. Sadly that is'nt newsworthy.

I agree, I've actually had to use the NHS before (broke my arm while in the UK) and it was fine. I've also extensively used the German health care system, and it likewise has it's fault but is, overall, fine.

Honestly, I wonder what people want or mean when they say a "health care system is amazing" -- I don't know if there is one that is such, and perhaps that's an antipattern if it is?

Just a warning, the UK has major problems with anti-social behaviour and youth crime in many places. The police do very little about to stop it.

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted.

This is the exact reason why I left London. It's fine and good if you are by yourself or your partner. But once you have kids, it's very difficult to live in the capital. A lot of stabbing and anti-social behaviour. You'd need to live in the rich parts of London (Chelsea..etc) and even then it's not very safe.

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