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Comment by andy_ppp | Hacker News Reader

I don’t understand what bubble Elon Musk is living in where the ruthless slashing of USAID spending won’t have huge negative repercussions for the US.

I think the rest of the world will withdraw from trusting the US after this and other actions. A lot of trust in the world leadership positions the US takes are being torched by these vandals right now and while I hope for an amazing US comeback in 4 years it looks a lot more like China will step in as a stable partner for a lot of countries after an almost complete betrayal of western values.

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- "torched by these vandals"

That's such an apt phrase. It goes back to the time Rome was a great and prosperous civilization, and there was a barbarian tribe–"Vandals" is a proper name–who were incompatible with kind of high civilization, who rode into a weakened Rome and looted various treasures they liked. And torched the rest.

It's an apt language to talk about people who seemingly don't comprehend the value of the institutions America built up over a century, the deep soft power behind them; who see only fistfuls of cash that can be grabbed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)

I find it particularly ironic that adherents to Ayn Rand elected a bunch of political looters who don't apparently care about the rule of law.

Who benefits from the world no longer trusting the USA?

putin.

And China. Don’t forget China.

crypto why do you think their doing this.

What trust? Other governments trust the USA as much as people trust Facebook to deliver them non brain rot content or McDonalds to serve them a healthy nutritious meal.

Countries have a mutually beneficial relationship with the US out of need(world's biggest economy and consumer market), out of fear(world's biggest military), and out o necessity (Russia and China being worse alternatives) not out of trust. Basically, Realpolitik. Trump didn't move the needle on that front at all despite the optics in the eyes of the plebs.

If by some hypothetical scenario, tomorrow the US would disappear from the world and its status as the leading world super-power be replaced by a country like Russia or China, then the other countries on the planet would kiss their ring, just as how in a herd/pack all the males succumb to the alpha male. It's nothing to do with trust, it's all to do with power and influence.

Talk to any Canadian and tell me that trust in the US as an ally hasn't been irreparably damaged.

Global geopolitics are complicated. It's true on some level that no one trusts anyone else, but relative levels of trust still matter. There aren't many superpowers out there, if the US is seen as unreliable, China and the EU can step in and replace US influence. This has been happening in Africa for a couple decades or so, with China becoming increasingly influential.

These actions will drive US allies into partnerships with our rivals, which will make the US weaker. Everyone on both sides of the aisle understood this from 1946-2016.

Australia just gave America a down payment of $800 million to build submarines.

Submarines the US is incapable of producing.

I dunno, one thing is for sure the US has some amazing submarine technology. What makes you say they can't be made?

Because the US submarine production calender is completely full and unable to scale up.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/aukus-congress-subcom...

Australia will also not have full control of their own submarines:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/austra...

Impossible to scale up I’m not convinced by, military projects delayed? 100% certainty I’d say.

US single handedly boosting European investment in European defense companies

>Talk to any Canadian and tell me that trust in the US as an ally hasn't been irreparably damaged.

Firstly, I have no sympathy here. If you trust any foreign government that's not accountable to you to begin with, that's on you.

The upshot is that this serves as a good lesson and wake-up call for Canadians and for us in EU as well that we need to start pulling our weight in the world and looking out for our own interests instead of letting ourselves at the mercy of foreign powers.

People need to learn lessons the hard way on their own skin if they're too stupid to learn from past history, like how Czechoslovakia was fucked over by its allies in WW2 and gave to Hitler on a platter. Don't rely on supposed allies to fight your battles, look out for yourself. That's why I'm a big fan of the Swiss's neutrality system and France's post-WW2 nuclear deterrent program. A strong military is better than stronger allies that can change their mind.

And secondly, nothing is ever irreparably damaged. 80 years ago Japan and US were at war and for over 50 years they've been strong allies. Canada also invaded the US in 1814 and burned down the White House and yet they've been each other closest allies after that. Similarly, in 20 years Russia could be the west's best friend. So relationships between countries change all the time based on how the wind blows. Nothing ever lasts forever, only gullible fools with no understanding of history try to hang onto such idealistic beliefs.

The Swiss trust their neighbors in most things. They have extensive trading relationships with their neighbors, many treaties and relatively open borders. There military is structured under the assumption their neighbors won't invade.

Sure, but that was only a personal opinion tangent and not the core of my argument which still stands. That's like the safari guide telling you to stay in the vehicle because the Bengali tigers outside will maul you and you go "Ackshually, those are Siberian Tigers, not Bengali." While you're technically correct, it doesn't change the point.

Trust isn't a binary. If everybody trusted all of their neighbors as much as South Korea trusts North Korea then the world economy would collapse and we'd likely have billions of deaths.

It isn't binary but clever countries with a strong defense policy like the US and Switzerland also have insurance polices and backup plans for the case their allies turn against them since it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. Guess in which case Europe is a the moment?

So what should Canada do? Spend 100% of their GDP preparing for an American invasion that they'd probably still lose?

got 2 words nuclear proliferation.

> I think the rest of the world will withdraw from trusting the US after this and other actions

The USA currently has a problem where a large portion of the US population no longer trusts the USA. That population shifts depending on whichever group is in charge of the federal government

Maybe this is not the way to repair that trust, I don't know. But I think for a lot of people, "Stop sending tons of our tax money to other countries" is a step to repair some of that trust with the population

The next step would have to be "start re-investing that money back into America" but we'll see if that actually happens

Foreign aid is (was) 1% of the US budget

And that's 1% (of the whole budget) too much.

When the diseases of the third world metastasise and cause a far worse pandemic than the one that just happened you will think the 1% is cheap.

And is highly abused, cut it.

> The USA currently has a problem where a large portion of the US population no longer trusts the USA.

Feature, not a bug.

> But I think for a lot of people, "Stop sending tons of our tax money to other countries" is a step to repair some of that trust with the population

Yes, bingo. On both sides, people have become extremely sick of seeing "billions of dollars sent to X" in the news knowing that we, American citizens, will never receive anything like that amount of aid

> we, American citizens, will never receive anything like that amount of aid

21% of the federal budget goes to Social Security (aid)

16% goes to medicare (aid)

10% goes to other health spending (probably at least partially aid -- edit: further research shows that of this, around 90% is some kind of aid)

7% goes to income security (aid)

4% goes to veteran services (aid)

3% goes to education, training, employment, and social services (aid)

1.5% goes to natural resources and environment (aid)

1% goes to community and regional development (aid)

1% goes to foreign aid

We are already spending a huge portion of our budget on various kinds of domestic aid, the majority of it in fact.

Edit to add, data from 2024, source here: https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/budget_function

If you are a young person today, your chance of getting Social Security is low because it will be scrapped by the time we reach that age. Medicare also is for seniors, Medicaid is for the impoverished. Veteran services are for veterans.

Most of what you describe is not for the average American citizen. But it is the average American citizen who has more credit card debt than ever before, whose wages don't keep pace with inflation, whose ability to buy a home for his family drifts further and further away every year.

Why can't we take that 1% that we send to foreign "allies" (who themselves have better social services and spend more on their populations than we do) and give it to the average American who works hard and makes this country what it is?

I mean, they basically are. They are slashing foreign aid, slashing Medicaid $800B, slashing SNAP programs 20%, and they're giving the money back to the American people in the form of tax breaks.

But not average Americans, no, don't be silly. It's going back to the 1% and corporations, the "real Americans" who built this country.

Average Americans get nothing. Actually, it's worse than that we get less than nothing; we are losing social welfare programs that keep up alive and healthy. Instead, the plan as far as I can tell is to just let people who depend on those programs die.

slashing Medicaid $800B

Note that the full Medicaid budget is $880B. So "slashing" it by 90% is just code for abolishing it entirely.

[to] the "real Americans" who built this country

And to the African immigrant that purchased it.

Your first claim was "we, American citizens, will never receive anything like that" and after that's been thoroughly debunked, you're conveniently moving the goalposts. Now it's suddenly all about some ill-defined "average citizen", and I'm sure your next claim is that veterans, people on welfare, and people with medical problems are all somehow not average.

Do better.

People with medical problems don't receive Medicare and Medicaid, the impoverished and senior citizens do.

Say what you will, but if the only American citizens who receive aid from their country are senior citizens, veterans, and the impoverished, then the rest are gonna be mad when they see billions of their hard earned taxes flying out to other countries instead of spent on them. That just is what it is. Especially as the economic prospects for an average working man in the US gets worse and worse every year

1% is small in terms of the national budget but massive in terms of the average American

If the argument is "it's not that much money and it wouldn't help Americans much" then can't people also turn that on it's head? "It's not that much money, so it's not actually doing much real good overseas either"

It's not the spending itself that's the problem. It's the the waste in each program. The middle men and NGO's that are hovering up free money from the tax payers that is the problem.

All these programs are treated like cookie jars and everyone gets a nibble.

Do you have any proof of this assertion? Most government agencies outside of the military have passed financial audits. People who have worked as auditors in the public and private sectors generally report more waste and fraud in the private sector by far.

No, it's the spending. I'm sick of looking at our "allies" having the social programs our "leaders" tell us we can't have while we subsidize their countries

Except that foreign aid is a tiny part of the US budget.

Seems to be consistent with Musk's MO. Cut first then (maybe) measure.

Cut twice, measure once?

Cut quickly, prevent anyone from measuring -- before or after.

Or just cut, call it good and move on.

Anyone that actually does measure later and tells him his cut was off is just part of the radical left, fake media and woke mob.

There's always money to be made from things failing or instability unfortunately. There's a reason they want to cause the economy to crash.

crypto. and network states. curtis yarvin.

Haha, crypto is great while there is money for pure speculation. Only Gold will hold it's value.

Repercussions? That's for people who expect to be held accountable for their actions.

1) Elon isn't a fraction as bright as he thinks he is 2) Elon suffers from extreme Dunning-Kruger 3) His boss only cares about adulation & retribution 4) Their enablers are willing to sit on the sideline as the side effects are destroying their political opposition

Oligarchs don't care about other people or even the country.

They're so rich that they're isolated from any negative fallout (and they'll try to benefit from them too).

$400m state department Cyber Truck order says cost cutting is going superbly. Definitely no conflicts of interest here!

Elon lives in a far-right conspiracy bubble.

USAID is a bogeyman for that "community"

He's not interested in helping anyone but himself. IDK how stopping this stuff helps him exactly, but his actions make a lot more sense if you look at them through that lens. Negative repercussions for the US aren't necessarily negative for him, or they may be outweighed by something positive for him.

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