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Comment by opliko | Hacker News Reader

The more I learn about how VSCode works the more it seems like it's held together with duct tape and the most cursed ideas a JS developer could come up with.

Even just from the SSH extension - the workspace URIs have two formats: essentially just the hostname and hex-encoded JSON documents. The latter case happens when additional info is needed, e.g. specific username, or... The hostname includes an uppercase letter.

Which is actually necessary because when they're saved to recent workspaces they're lowercased for whatever reason.

The SSH connections also support configuring extensions that are to be installed on the server, but don't go too crazy with it or you won't be able to connect to Windows hosts, since they're passing them ass command line arguments via CMD, which has a 8191 character limit (they're using CMD to call... PowerShell...).

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I don't know, I found VS Code to be nicer than Eclipse. I've never had a need for SSH through an IDE, so I can't speak to that. Usually I'd just SSH through putty and use Vi if I need to do stuff on the server.

This is for remote dev, where the code you're editing exists on a remote environment vs. Local to your disk.

I like sshfs for that. It preserves the “do one thing, do it well” idea that so many IDEs seem to have forgotten.

But vscode doesn’t just let you edit files on the remote, it runs everything on the remote: extensions, terminal commands, etc. If you’re working on a web project, it forwards ports so you can still visit localhost in your browser, even though your dev server is running on the remote host.

Yeah it's like fully virtualized to run the same familiar environment completely on a local machine. It's not even remotely comparable. Extremely necessary in many cases like thin clients for machine learning

sshfs doesn't work for things where you're developing for linux and working on macos - run the code, run the debugger, step, etc.

I don't use IDEs at all and work on sshfs almost exclusively, but I totally understand where people are coming from and the difference between editing files and running code.

Sshfs doesn't pass inotify and other things, so your IDE doesn't know a file has changed (git, compiler output, and so on.)

VScode sees file changes immediately.

I use rclone for that because, while the "complete opposite of do one thing”, it (mostly) solves the extremely annoying problem of "dealing with things that look like files in potentially remote locations, each with it's own bespoke API".

(it also has, for most of my use cases, better performance that sshfs).

Eh, still, I've used stuff like Coder for remote work, or SSH and Vi.

I like it because it’s really easy to extend the editor with custom language support/tooling if you know JavaScript/Typescript. Providing custom completions, diagnostics, etcetera. I can also provide custom Go to definitions for cross-language support.

> The more I learn about how VSCode works ...... duct tape

The most unfortunate few lines. [0]

I wish Microsoft would hire me for a couple months to do nothing but sit in a corner by myself untangling this mess.

[0] https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/blob/6dbde2a3ed308f88164...

It’s shit and string. Gone back to vim.

Give Eclipse a go?

Is it not written in Java?

Yes. However, today's Eclipse is only similar in appearance to its former self (I'm using it since 2002).

Has its own JRE bundled, and uses that one if you don't have any JRE installed.

Has a stable release every three months.

Starts in 5 seconds, uses ~600MB of RAM (less than VSCode!), and works very snappy.

Supports web development, C/C++, Python, remote execution and much more. Plus it has the best Git integration I have seen ever (incl. GitTower + Kaleidoscope).

In C/C++ land integrates directly with debuggers, Valgrind, etc.

The trick is, it didn't get bloated or heavier over the years, the contrary, and draws circles around everything in its class. Plus it has modern amenities like LSP support, synchronization between installations, etc.

Oh, and you can migrate it with two small XML files. Preferences and software configuration.

I admit that I haven't tried Eclipse in forever (since I'm firmly a JetBrains fan) but your comment prompted me to at least kick the tires on it again

After navigating to https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ choosing the big Download button, and but then after launching Eclipse Installer it asks me if I want Java, Enterprise Java, C++, Embedded C++, PHP, or a bunch of inside baseball stuff. I typed python in the search bar and it laughed at me. Based solely upon the description, it seems that one would have to use PHP for "web development"

Since I wasn't able to try out its Python support, I figured web development was the next best experiment. After a bunch of Next buttons, I created a .ts file, right clicked and chose Run. It opened a error dialog saying an "Internal error" had occurred. Only by diving into the details did I find "Cannot invoke java.io.File.getParentFile() because tsConfigFile is null"

But, no problem, I'll just commit this file and work on that later. Oh, wait, how do I commit the file again? There's no "Git" in the context menu. Hmm, typing git in the Help > Search offers "Show in Git Repositories", which has "Create a new local Git repository" Excellent, click that. It now offers a completely different path than the "workspace" that it asked me to pick when starting. So it's going to create a repo outside of where the files are? That's weird. But, I'm a sport. All that machinery and still no "Commit" anywhere to be found, even in Help > Search

I am not saying all of this because I think that you are Eclipse tech support, I'm saying that their DX is still stuck in 2002 so I'm glad it works for you but it absolutely does not hold a candle to modern IDEs

Eclipse is a platform, not a set of IDEs you have to install differently. What you have downloaded and installed is a “starting point”. My installation has all the functionality in a single installation.

Eclipse has two ways to install more features marketplace and “install new software”. Both are integrated to every Eclipse package you download. Python is provided by PyDev under marketplace.

Eclipse handles VCS globally and puts every VCS to their own folders. VCS features are tucked under “Team” menu. “Share Project” is what you want.

When you share a project it’s moved to its VCS folder, that’s true, but the project doesn’t disappear from your workspace view. You continue working from the same point.

Git management has its own view (called a perspective), reachable from top right. This perspective allows to manage any git repository regardless of they are your projects or not.

Eclipse has a different workflow than other tools, but I don’t find it backwards (I use BBEdit, KATE, Git Tower and countless others), every tool has a different take and that’s OK.

If you import a project from git directly, Eclipse works the way you expect.

If you still want to discover Eclipse, I can support you. If you don’t, there are no hard feelings. It’s a tool which has its own ways (like Vim, EMacs, XCode and VSCode and others). This doesn’t make it backwards, but different.

I appreciate you responding, although I actually was trying to save you the trouble by saying that I wasn't asking for tech support - it was more that I was using your comment as a contextual mini-blog/rant place to warn off others

That's because I'm cheating you: I knew about the marketplace, although Eclipse's "p2" concept drives me stark-raving when trying to setup a new instance on a machine. What I'm saying is that my life experience with Eclipse has been it is the "well, here are some components, build yourself an excellent IDE from them!" in the most user hostile way possible. It feels like the same committee that generated the Rational Unified Process got into making software. Architectural astronauts, using OSGi, to ensure than everything works on a presentation slide and nothing works when trying to run it

https://marketplace.eclipse.org/comment/8289#comment-8289 is a representative example of the same experience I've had with the "Eclipse ecosystem," showing it's not just me but a systemic problem with their release management discipline

Thank you; you just saved me 30min from testing it again, hoping it had dramatically improved. What you described is exactly how I remember it, from two decades ago.

Well, it has dramatically improved, but breaking prejudices is hard, as far as I can see.

I understand that the flow isn’t similar to what people expect, but what it provides is vastly superior to many tools I have used.

IMHO, if people can justify the time spent for learning Vi or EMacs or any other tool, it can be also justified for Eclipse.

Either way, there are no hard feelings. I’m just a messenger.

This does sound nice. I used Eclipse a bit 4 years ago for Java, and I switched to IntelliJ and found it to be much more usable and feature-rich, however. I don't know how much has changed since then, though.

> Has its own JRE bundled, and uses that one if you don't have any JRE installed.

> Starts in 5 seconds, uses ~600MB of RAM (less than VSCode!), and works very snappy.

> The trick is, it didn't get bloated or heavier over the years, the contrary,

...and you're mentioning these features as points in Eclipse's favour ... when comparing it to vim?!?!?

I think you forgot the "/s"

No I’m comparing it to VSCode at that instance.

I also use Vim a ton every day (both remote and local). While it’s a neat editor, it’s not an IDE.

The only place I compare it to Vim is the learning curve part, and learning curve is not related to system requirements.

Almost no one using VS Code can use vim.

I use both and also IntelliJ. Why are you trying to talk down to people based on the tools they use?

I do not personally no anybody using VS Code that hasn't also used vim. Granted there's some huge selection bias since so many people in my personal sphere use vim, but there you go.

Gold ! They can use emacs then.

I regularly use vim in the embedded terminal of vscode. (And I use vim when ssh'd in from my phone.)

Most of us have learned <esc>:q by now. And then apt-get remove vim :)

I can't use VS Code without vim bindings.

I use both all the time. VSCode is fine for a lot of reasons, vi is ubiquitous on servers.

https://xkcd.com/1053/

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