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Comment by haunter | Hacker News Reader

I live in Hungary and the roads here are incredibly bad with millions of potholes. Hot summers and cold winters doesn’t help either.

But what I noticed that if the asphalt has higer mixture of stones (usually they use basalt here) then there are virtually almost no potholes. It’s more loud as the surface is more rough but by my layman experience it’s much more durable. Pure asphalt roads with very little stone content always become pothole minefields quickly.

So I just generally don’t know why higher stone content is not a standard. Probably more expensive and maybe because of the sound too. I don’t think it’s more slippery in wet conditions.

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I did a road trip through Europe a few years back, and when we passed from Romania (coming from Cluj) to Hungary, the road immediately got _comically_ bad. As we got closer to Budapest things seemed to improve, but wow, I vividly remember this.

I'd be curious to learn whether it's a lack of maintenance (Hungary generally seemed well maintained except for the roads though) or something else.

Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences.

My theory that construction companies here work as a cartel. For them making good roads is not a business > less projects later. So keeping up the status quo with low quality is a better business, there is always something to fix and repair and also more opportunity to steal public money.

> Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences.

Welcome to EU. Is there any EU country where this is not a fact ?

I'm in Germany, and while I'm sure we have some corruption (I believe every country has at least a little bit), I'm not aware of it as a systemic problem.

With our previous (and how it's looking, next) government there was a scandal around masks in Covid times, and a few others I think.

But nothing to the point of causing major disrepair of infrastructure. Our rail infrastructure is famously in need of maintenance, but from all I know that's more a matter of stupidity than malice (Hanlon's Razor and all that).

While some might just denounce it as bureaucracy, we do have a lot of regulation, oversight and checks and balances. Which causes it's own issues (like having to pick the cheapest suppliers from an extended process).

But I believe there are some EU countries where corruption in itself is a problem.

well as you name the rail infrastructure: it was sold out and left to despair since the 1970s. This was clearly lobbying from the automotive industry. Similarly in the USA, tramlines where teared down in many cities.

I lived in Belgium, close to the Dutch border. When you take the E314 East, it is insane how the quality of the road improves once you cross the Meuse/Maas into the Netherlands.

The asphalt becomes so smooth and quiet. No potholes.

Until it rains. Then the rain seems to stay on top of it. Meaning a lot more fine water mist being produced by cars driving over it.

A higher aggregate mix sounds more like Tarmacadam (i.e. tarmac) although probably with a bituminous (rather than tar) binder these days.

The higher aggregate mix generally doesn't make for a more durable road though, but there's far more to a good road than just the materials its made from.

More stones also make asphalt more slippery in wet conditions don't they?

I think it's the opposite, this kind of asphalt has very rough surface.

It has a rough surface in the way that it makes it uncomfortable to walk on, but not in the way that tires will grip to it. Stones are oddly-shaped, but slippery.

But not the right kind of grit rough. The 'stoney' rough asphalts can be extremely slippery when wet, and even dry they then to extend breaking distance.

My guess is they also cause more rolling tire wear and slightly more fuel consuption.

I’m not sure how you could have worse grip when braking (caused by lower friction) while simultaneously increase tire wear (caused by higher friction), unless I’m misunderstanding something.

Tire wear is not just friction. The uneven coarse grit can pound, cut, chip and twist the tire surface all while having less grip/friction.

Static (resisting sliding) vs rolling friction.

Less people drive worse roads, leading to less damage to the roads.

I don’t disagree, but commercial/trucking traffic is a big part of it too.

Pretty bad for bikes though, and pushchairs.

The stones are usually not that big and the bitumen makes it more even anyway. The bicycle paths at my place use a semi coarse variant which is fine and drains quite a bit of water.

Or that they steal the important ingredients from the mixture and the company who does the quality assurance is also on the "payroll".

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