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Comment by easytiger | Hacker News Reader

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Researchers have exactly the same right to this data as X has to accessing the German market. If they want to make money, they play by the rules chosen by the people of that country. They are free to not sell their services if they don't like the deal offered.

Which researchers, and why do they have such a "right"?

Because that is what is democratically voted for? If the people (or the representatives they voted for) say that society having access to that data is what society wants, then the company can either provide that data, or have it taken from them.

There should not be a scenario where a company "beats" society.

Almost all of the countries we label as "democracies" have constitutions, and many of those constitutions limit what can be "democratically voted for". In the United States, the constitution has strict limits on ceaseing private property. That does not mean the US is not "democratic" by common usage of the term. Those living in democracies that thus protect private property rights may find laws that encroach on those private property rights odd, and be against them. Even in a country that has no such protections, one may be against such laws.

We are aware of the problems the US has. But the question "Why would anyone in a democracy accept" is easily answered, and as such I did.

As for the statements on encroachment or protections: this is about public data, not about private data or secrets.

The argument made in court is about research facilities due to the outsized impact X can make. You want to play in someone else's country, you'll have to follow their rules. This works the other way around as well, if a German company were to host their data in the US, they would have to accept that the government can snoop on that data whenever they want since the US does not protect German citizens. (and as such, privacy laws in Germany and in the EU since around 1995 do not allow private data to be transferred by default)

Something more countries might want to do is protect citizens from large corporations. They are not your friends.

Okay, I can see your point. I thought this was under the question "Why would anyone living in a democracy be against this?" but I see now it was a response to the other question that was response to that question.

It seems like that phrase "democracy" means different things to different people, depending on where they are from.

Let’s not pretend anybody voted directly for this or was even aware of this law when they cast their vote.

DSA and DMA is widely known, but perhaps not by their acronyms or every individual rule.

I don't know in what country you live, but this was not exactly some hidden issue, in almost all member states this was a local issue and had local news coverage as well.

The only way someone would not have been aware is if they spent none of their time on any local or global reports. But in those cases, everything is going to be something they are unaware of and we'd be talking about people who are essentially disconnecting themselves from society. Everyone else would have heard about it multiple times since even local elections made a point of mentioning it, and election turnout is high, even if you don't participate yourself for some reason, it would be really hard to not have talked to anyone who did.

No but we vote for people to do that on our behalf.

And X is not just any company, it has high influence potential on society. And Musk has already openly tried to influence elections here.

It's Americans having an issue with this, not Germans.

DMA is very popular among EU voters.

> government has any right to data owned by a private company

Another way to look at it is that the people have a right to the data.

No, each person has a right to their own data. But not "the people", it is the opposite actually.

That entirely depends on local laws. I don't see why it shouldn't be possible for a democracy to pass a law granting such rights.

Would you be happy if anyone could see all you do on social media?

So the people have a right to have access to other individuals personal data?

Sometimes so, tax records are public in some European countries.

To the extent we’re talking about user activity on the site, the people already have access to this data by dint of being the ones who did the things. Sent a tweet, viewed a tweet, clicked a link. They already have it. So what is being asked of X?

The scope is limited to electoral debates. It's in the interest of the citizens.

This is giving random researchers ("including those affiliated with non-profit bodies, organizations, and associations") "unrestricted access to all publicly available data on the platform immediately after elections" as long as they are doing something with some connection to the election? Doesn't sound very limited in scope... just timing. There's tons of nefarious uses for data like that which is why social media APIs usually have limitations on how broad you can go.

Twitter gave researches good access. Then came Musk and shut that down. I don't think he did that because he worried about nefarious uses.

> which is why social media APIs usually have limitations on how broad you can go

Without paying, usually.

This law is not about arbitrary companies, but about large social networks affecting millions of people. Requiring a certain transparency from these seems justified.

Is such data owned by the platform in EU?

There are vanishingly few private companies of significant size. For example in the US most businesses with more than a few owners are government chartered corporations, LLCs, and the like. This gets them government granted liability shields, and so it makes sense for them to be proactively regulated to prevent causing foreseeable harm that they might otherwise escape responsibility for.

Every once in a while, someone posts a revealing insight into exactly why Business Organizations should be taught outside law schools.

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