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Comment by slashdev | Hacker News Reader

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Zero power? Explain that to USAID, Treasury, OPM, and GSA. Actors working on behalf of digital services (i.e. DOGE) are commandeering IT systems and sending out ultimatums to the workforce about complying with their orders at risk of being punished with administrative leave for insubordination. It is a highly unlawful operation that goes far beyond the consult and advise mission you’re alluding to.

My understanding is that most the actions you listed above were performed as standard Executive Orders or OMB Memos. Each one may or may not be illegal, but are being done through a standard channel despite the marketing around DOGE.

The questionable activity sees to be things like the physical and IT system access being given to DOGE employees.

Is anyone aware of direct action by DOGE employees that constitutes orders (vs just being routed to the whitehouse to ship out orders via the EO/OMB)?

This is my understanding as well, but I'm interested to know about exceptions to this

please don't spread misinformation. it clearly has power, and has been demonstrably exercising that power.

> to shine a light into dark places of government spending

yes, I'm aware that this is the Official Position of the State. but quite obviously that is not what it is actually doing

What power exactly does it have? Be specific.

Full access to US Treasury payment infrastructure and private data on millions of US citizens, for two.

That's not power.

That's information access, and yes, they are getting that, and that's not unexpected either. How else would they do their job?

Knowledge is power

You’re moving the goal posts of this conversation by redefining the word power.

My point stands.

I didn't redefine it lol. you assumed I was using one definition and appear to be confused when I clarified. I've been very consistent.

That's okay, you're either wrong, or used an uncommon definition. Take your pick of either. shrug

Fair enough. I think the point is that’s not power. Not hard power or real power anyway.

It’s soft power, it’s influence. But not much more.

I think it is hard power. and also note they had write access, not just read. so if Musk wanted to he could have just straight up deleted all the data. that is real power.

That’s just somebody at the treasury being a moron.

You defined power as soft power and now you want to say actually it’s hard power. It’s not. They can’t give anyone orders and impose consequences for not following them. That’s what hard power is.

> they can’t give anyone orders and impose consequences for not following them

well, they also demonstrably did this?

but I'm pretty done with this "conversation"

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