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Comment by redcobra762 | Hacker News Reader

That’s fine, it’s just not what Westerners generally say, in my experience. Not that distaste for Chinese authoritarianism is inherently pro Western, just that Westerners I know tend to have an ideological issue with the substantially higher levels of censorship and oppression that takes place in China.

It’s surprising to find people who genuinely don’t care about any of that, is all.

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"westerners" as if it was a monolithic block. I envy the simplicity of seeing life in such terms, China bad, US good, it must be very relaxing

You don't have any concerns with the US government, the nepotism, the corruption, the conflict of interests, the insider trading, the massive concentration of wealth and power in tech, the insane lobbyism, PRISM, &c.

It's surprising to find people who can so clearly see how China is bad but are completely oblivious to their own problems. It's not a football game, you don't have to chose a side and be a boot licker for eternity

this directly blends people with a government.. Western people is not equal to the USA govt. Here in California, three decades of China human rights history is very clear to a lot of people. In fact, many Chinese speaking people on the Americas west coast, left China for specific reasons, too.

Utilitarian money-oriented self-servers definitely have less "care" about these things? EU or UK or wherever

I didn’t say China bad, I said Westerners typically find the levels of oppression and censorship present in China to be of concern. I actually gave zero of my own judgement on China at all.

If you really think the Good vs. Evil narrative is wrong, why would you immediately go towards unrelated generic issues the West has? A neutral party would be more likely to acknowledge the problems with both sides, not reflexively try to change the subject!

Then again you didn’t claim to be a neutral party, did you?

The CEO did gave a statement about their motivation. Could be a lie, but he delivered and it is also vastly more sensible that what we often hear from other companies. Google and Meta are an exception for this space though.

Also, because not only the weights, but also the data is open, any propaganda can be identified and corrected. This is not the case for other models and what we have seen from Gemini, there certainly are "adaptations". I don't think Google had ill intent here, but this would fit what some would classify as propaganda.

Well yeah, both sides are fucked so I'll use the free tool and not the $200/month tool, it really isn't rocket science

Even if deepseek is a chinese communist party evil trick what do they get ? My shitty code ? Big deal, at least I'm not down $200 a month, which is half of my rent

If they would establish deepseek in their authorized version worldwide - it means they would establish their worldview worldwide.

Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc.

But ... deepseek seems open source and the local version not restricted (as it likely was trained on ChatGPT in the first place). So I also refuse to refuse deepseek because it comes from china. I see it as more competition that hopefully will help with establishing good open source models in control of no single political organisation.

> Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc.

Well too bad for them, using a pencil to cut bread sucks too, that's why we don't do it. Meanwhile it's converting my json to xml and pissing code so I don't have to piss it myself

Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.

That's why I'm investing in land and ammos instead of cryptos and nvidia stocks

I can see the motive, but I rather invest in a world where I won't end up in a fortified home shooting hungry scavengers.

I'm investing in my local community, it's closer to chicken coop vs rabbit cages than chatgpt vs deepseek, and sadly the war isn't even 1000km away as we speak

A bit closer for me, but how will the local community help, if the war is coming?

I considered switzerland for this reason. (Also I like mountains)

> how will the local community help, if the war is coming?

That's the only thing left.

Switzerland won't help when the top 30%+ of every EU country flees there

> Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.

If the majority of people get their vote from a LLM, then it already doesn't matter which LLM it is.

Off topic: why the hell are you converting json to xml? I would rather convert json to yaml instead, a step forwards instead of backwards in evolution, but that is my opinion.

Working with legacy backward code?

> Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc.

How is this any worse than where the US is now, getting the Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos/Trump approved answers, if any answer can be gotten at all, after the current occupant of the oval office has silenced all federal agencies.

Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things, and if they won’t, that info is otherwise freely available. Neither is the case for Chinese trained models.

> Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things,

Pull the other leg. Do you know who David Mayer is? Hint: https://archive.ph/iI5xC

It's a random guy. He's also not censored by OpenAI models:

> Who is David Mayer

![Quién es David Mayer de Rothschild, el millonario al que relacionan ...](https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CCKTcyWe80YvrRbkkxY_AAHaK...) The name "David Mayer" is associated with several individuals across various fields:

1. *David Mayer de Rothschild*: Born in 1978, he is a British environmentalist, adventurer, and member of the Rothschild family. He is known for his environmental advocacy and expeditions, including the "Plastiki" project, where he sailed across the Pacific Ocean on a boat made from recycled plastic bottles to raise awareness about plastic pollution. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild?utm_...))

2. *David M. Mayer*: A professor of Management and Organizations at the University of Michigan, specializing in behavioral ethics. ([scholar.google.com](https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=c2Zunb8AAAAJ...))

3. *David R. Mayer*: An American politician born in 1967, he has served as the mayor of Gloucester Township, New Jersey, and was a member of the New Jersey General Assembly. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Mayer?utm_source=chat...))

4. *David Delaney Mayer*: Born in 1992, he is an American documentary filmmaker and social entrepreneur, known for projects like the PBS series "Food Town" and co-founding DreamxAmerica, an initiative supporting immigrant entrepreneurs. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Delaney_Mayer?utm_source...))

5. *David Mayer (Historian)*: An American-British theatre historian (1928–2023), he was an emeritus professor at the University of Manchester, recognized for his work on 19th-century drama and the Victorian stage. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...))

6. *Akhmed Chatayev (Alias: David Mayer)*: A Chechen militant (1980–2017) who used the alias "David Mayer." This alias led to a case of mistaken identity affecting the historian David Mayer. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...))

If you have a specific "David Mayer" in mind, please provide more context or details, and I can offer more targeted information.

This is virtue signaling and concern trolling until you post evidence that DeepSeek is doing worse than what ChatGPT does on Israel vs Palestine.

Who am I signaling my virtue to if I'm posting anonymously?

Stop making this about "westerners" and "chinese". We don't care. Your bubble isn't representative of "westerners".

It's funny you say that cause chatgpt, Gemini, etc have way more censorship built in than deepseek.

No, the US used to be allies, but that was before Trump.

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