Comment by somishere | Hacker News Reader

Comment by somishere | Hacker News Reader

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During the pandemic / lockdown I was lucky enough to visit one of the reef pontoons off Cairns (Australia, on the Great Barrier Reef) that had been shut for several months. The resident Maori wrasse (a very large fish) at this pontoon, and others, has been known to have a relationship with some of the regular staff - often rubbing up against them in the water. When we jumped in the water that day the fish's reaction was the wildest thing I've ever seen. It was like a small puppy who has been locked inside all day. It literally jumped into my arms, flapping its tail to get closer. I'm going to repeat - this is a big fish, maybe a metre long and stocky, covered in a nice thick layer of slime. It would then swim away and come back and rub up against us. It did this to all three of us in the group ... only one of us was a regular. She hung with us for the whole snorkel and it was a bit sad when we had to get out of the water. Amazing experience. Made me feel differently about wrasses, that's for sure.

While I was scuba diving in Belize with some friends we encountered some Goliath Grouper which would follow us around. Later we were amazed when we saw another diver hold out her arms to one and it swam right up to her so she could hold it and pet it. Keep in mind this was a massive fish that probably weighed as much as a person.

We asked her about it afterwards, turns out they just like being petted :). Eventually got to try it out ourselves on another dive, fish can be really friendly.

Wow. We have a "Queensland" Grouper here .. similar size to the goliath, but there is no way I would hug it. A mate was a skipper of a dive boat and went for a freedive on their break - got a little bit too close to one that was chilling under the vessel. It opened it's mouth and sucked their head in. Happened very quickly. This person has a pretty decent breath hold, and experienced all round. But they thought that was it - all over. Until they were promptly spat out - never to venture within 10m of a fish that size again.

Goliath Groupers are massive! It must’ve been surreal to interact with something like that up close.

Other animals are really cool it's a shame we eat them and treat them so cruelly.

We don't eat them because they are uncool, we eat them because we can farm them 'en masse' in a cost effective manner and they cannot escape. I've had moose, horse, and a few more non-typical farmed animals. I like horse steak the best. But, a beef steak costs X and a horse steak costs 5x.

It's a complicated multi-threaded discussion. I saw a vid recently from (I assume the UK) that people were protesting on the meat-alley of a super market. So those people are cool when the super market sells cigarettes, sugary drinks that cause diabetes to kids, 'chocolates' with 50% sugar, alcohol that ruins millions of lives around the world, etc. But steak.. that is their problem. Oh the hypocrisy.

Perhaps they feel that tobacco farming and harvesting causes significantly less distress to the tobacco plants than animal farming and slaughter does to the animals.

The plant stays alive once its 'fruit' is remove, true (although I've never picked cotton or tobacco leaves - I assume the process doesn't injure the plant).

But we don't care. We only keep the plant alive so we can make more of the 'good stuff' (cigarettes, jeans, etc.)

Again, low effort and low cost from our side. If it would be cheaper to kill the tobacco plant (I don't know much about tobacco plants, perhaps that at some point/age of the plant it becomes sterile, so we kill the old one and plant a new one?) If this is the case, then kill the old cotton plant, get a new one, start harvesting. We decided that we rule the earth. Until something very dramatic happens (ruin ecosystems, aliens invade, etc.) then we run the show.

That’s a textbook example of whataboutism if I’ve ever seen one, but it’s also a category error:

Selling cigarettes harms the buyers, but selling factory-farmed meat harms the animals being factory farmed, and they don’t have any agency in this at all.

> Selling cigarettes harms the buyers, but selling factory-farmed meat harms the animals being factory farmed,...

Yes, it is exactly as you write it! Did you just realize that? (pardon the irony but come on.. idealism = ideas, realism = reality)

> and they don’t have any agency in this at all.

Correct again! No they don't. We cut down trees that are very much alive because we want new/more/better chairs. We take a fish from the water, kill it, skin it, eat it. We don't care for its life. We care for our lives and comfort more. Yes. It has been decided, humans are the dominant species on this planet. We rule. Now, I wished we ruled with more wisdom (e.g. avoid over-fishing and other unsustainable practices). But that's not how greed works. And our species is greedy. Perhaps you and I are not, but 'we' are. And perhaps it will ruin us.

Sorry, most of fish we eat were not farmed by human.

My point was about "we eat what does not resist" also "cost". If it would cost us $1m to eat 1kg of fish, we wouldn't be eating fish (the 99.999% of the population). If hunting cows would end up costing us $200k per 1kg of beef.. same.

It is about "how obedient/simple/easy/effortless" is the thing we eat.

I probably did not explain that well in my initial message.

At the zoo’s seal exhibit, there’s a spot where you can watch them underwater. There was one seal that was literally waiting for us to show up so we could play with him. The guide told us that we could show him keys, and he would act like a cat. And that’s exactly what happened. It was unforgettable. He chased after my keys and seemed so happy with all the attention!

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