Oh, you could probably make some effective arguments that they're using it to influence American thought in a way that's designed to diminish the US as a world power through internal strife.
Israel/Hamas would probably be an example.
Israel/Hamas would probably be an example.
https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...
And they have banned several of those involved, though obviously each of the thousands who participated should be banned:
https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180
The editors were banned for organizing people around a vote. You going to pretend Israel doesn’t coordinate about the same things?
Norman Finkelstein puts it nicely: https://youtube.com/shorts/M0ZnnjQ3tAQ
Meanwhile Iran and Russia have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of the pro-Palestinian crowd doing the same in violation of Wikipedia’s terms of use.
Meanwhile, Israel and the US have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of Israeli hasbara and US willingness to ban sites in support of that hasbara.
Banning a propaganda tool used by China, Russia, and Iran, which is also used to collect our data, is not hasbara. It's just wise behavior to stop your enemies from disrupting your population. Anyway, hasbara means "explanation". Use of this as condemnation is basically somewhere between "foreign word bad" and "Jews bad".
Yes scale matters, the scale of resources used to push Israeli, US, and western propaganda dwarves that of China, Russia, or Iran. It’s laughable you use total population numbers here, as if every Muslim person is a dedicated jihadist working to bring down the west.
Anyway, not going any further down this pointless hole of arguing whether I hate Jews or not cause I don’t support the mass murder of children.
Those seem less biased sources than The Jerusalem Post
Those human rights groups, unfortunately, have a long history of bias and foreign influence. The closer they are to the UN, the more political they are. Literally half of the UN's resolutions pertain to Israel - while 99.999% of war deaths, famine, modern slavery, etc, happen without Israel being involved. The UN was led by a literal Nazi in the 70s - Kurt Waldheim - and the last few UN Secretary Generals have said that there is a serious bias against Israel there (obvious from the obsession).
(yes, this is the case regardless of which religion(s) are being flamed)
I wonder what you know about Genocide better than experts in Holocaust studies and other genocides themselves.
William Schabas, author of the 741-page textbook, "Genocide in International Law" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
John Quigley, author of the 300-page book, "The Genocide Convention: An International Law Analysis" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
@martinshawx, author of the books "What is Genocide?" and "War and Genocide" - says it's a genocide.
@dirkmoses, author of the 600-page book, "The Problems of Genocide" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
Raz Segal, author of "Genocide in the Carpathians" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
Amos Goldberg, author of books on Holocaust, says it's a genocide in Gaza
@bartov_omer, author of several books on Holocaust and genocide, says it's a genocide in Gaza.
But why to listen to the experts in law and genocide studies? Why to bother to read the extensive human rights reports?
Listen to @piersmorgan instead; he has a gut feeling.
> This is war, this is how it goes.
Yeah, war is how "I was just following orders" German troops justified killing 12m+ in concentration camps. Goebbels said, "The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all." Don't be like Goebbels.
> the 2 billion Muslims that hate Jews
Yeah, well: I know a handful Muslims who married Jews.
> and all you did was bitch on the internet, I'd be ashamed to know you
Same.
It is an extension of populist antisemitism. I encourage you to think about this on your own: why is Israel condemned for 45k deaths in a war they didn't start, where half of the killed are militants, where Israel is literally providing aid to their enemy, while the Houthis, responsible for 300k dead in the past decade, including many children via starvation, who have brought back slavery in Yemen, are lauded for attacking western shipping and have fanboys of one of their murderous pirates? Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally? Why do leftists love the idea of jihad and intifada, but not a nation defending itself?
Meanwhile, most "genocide" decriers seem to have ignored the tens of thousands of rockets, missiles, and drones launched at Israeli civilians from Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. They ignore the videos of Gazans chearing in the streets and spitting on corpses. The open calls for exterminating the Jews from the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, Iran, and more. There is one side calling for the extermination of the other and taking actions to make it so - the Muslims trying to destroy Israel and calling for and taking actions to kill Jews globally.
That's because Ralph Lemkin, who coined the term "Genocide" in the wake of the Shoah, identified 10 stages, and mass extinction event is the final stage. He posited that once mass extinction commences it almost impossible to stop without incurring a significant cost to whoever wants to stop it (and so, he implored powers-that-be recognize it before the event & not after): https://www.genocidewatch.com/tenstages
> If not for Israel and the Jews, we'd have world peace - at least that's what you'd think if you listened to these groups.
I know. And it is totally absurd like you say. Racists (antisemites in this case) will never make any sense. Historians specializing in genocide / Holocaust, on the other hand, are experts in their fields.
> Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally?
You are joking? ALL Muslims are vilified by many in almost every Western country and in countries where Muslims are a significant minority (like India). Like antisemitism, anti-Muslim racism is every which where.
> the Muslims trying to destroy Israel
Unsure why you blame ALL 2b Muslims. I mean, you're no different than those antisemites who blame the Jewish people for all of world's problems. As a test, replace "Muslims" with "Jews" in your sentences and see if they read antisemitic to you.
Besides, Pakistan, a Muslim country, has 300+ nuclear warheads and Inter-continental ballistic missiles capability; and if ALL Muslims without exception, like you say, are rabidly hell-bent on destroying Israel, what are the Pakistanis waiting for? Please, snap out of this Islamophobic hysteria.
It seems to be if the US Government wants not to be associated with a genocide-committing country they should just... do that. TikTok might have the largest share of the pro-Palestine mood as it were, but like... it's on all the platforms. Because again... they're committing a genocide, and filming it.
We're an active participant in, its not a surprise its the one we (USA ppl) care about.
I mean I can't speak to other people's experience, but as an American, I'm uniquely pissed off with the Israeli one because my tax dollars are paying for it, and because the White House could stop it at a time of their choosing, as they've done before.
Nearly a million died in the Iraq war. In a single battle, Mosul, almost as many were killed as in Gaza, including similar ratios of militants and civilians. In Ukraine, far more have been killed, both combatants and civilians - and Russia clearly targets civilians there, and they started the war (while Hamas started the Gaza war). In Syria, half a million died, mostly civilians. Ditto the Lebanese civil war. Ditto the Yemen-Houthi war.
> the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Which is just 100% what Israel is attempting to do to Palestine, and they're not exactly being coy about it.
If Israel wanted to maximize casualties, there would not be a Palestinian alive today. What would be their incentive to stop? The far left claims it’s a genocide as it is. What would actually killing them all be, then? Double genocide? You have used the worst term you can to describe something very far from the worst Israel could do.
And then of course, is the obvious contradiction that they just agreed to a ceasefire for their hostages. Just like they did in November 2023. And how they agreed to a ceasefire in Lebanon despite all the cries of them trying to seize the land. Israel wants to be left alone to live; the Palestinians (and the other neighboring Arab nations) want to kill all the Israelis and destroy Israel. The rest of the world wants these positions to meet in the middle, so there we are in the middle ground: perpetual war. Go look at the Hamas and Hezbollah founding charters, or the Houthi flag, or everything Iran says.
And, like even if I take this:
> I read a report about how they asked a Palestinian to alert his neighbors via a phone call and waited for him to tell everyone to get out.
at 100% face value, that some militants were in some building and the IDF was about to reduce it to ashes... so they called the guy next door, and asked him to evacuate the building? Which is presumably... full of militants? Cuz that's like the whole thing, that's the whole fuckin point?
You talk a lot about how nothing I say makes sense but that's just nonsensical on it's face, like... if these attacks are genuinely needed, why in the world would you warn people beforehand? Doesn't that completely defeat the purpose?
> the Palestinians (and the other neighboring Arab nations) want to kill all the Israelis and destroy Israel.
I mean they can want that as hard as they want, but Israel has the military and political backing of the West. They're untouchable, as has been demonstrated by them being surrounded by enemies essentially since the state was partitioned off from the others during it's founding, and it's still there.
No, this is not why. They are attacking because Gaza invaded Israel on 10/7, killing over 1200, injuring 5000, and kidnapping over 200. Notice how Arab / Palestinian citizens of Israel are not being killed.
> We don't need to wait for them to kill a certain percentage of the population to then be able to declare it a genocide.
I think this is a fundamental flaw of the genocide conventions. With this interpretation, you could call a single murder a genocide, if done with the intent of destroying a people (in which case, isn’t even murder of an Israeli by Hamas or other organizations whose intent is to destroy a genocide?). Obviously, this is absurd, and nobody is on TikTok raging about Hamas’ attempted genocide of Israel.
> You talk a lot about how nothing I say makes sense but that's just nonsensical on it's face, like... if these attacks are genuinely needed, why in the world would you warn people beforehand? Doesn't that completely defeat the purpose?
Yes, it does. It is in fact this attempt to do less harm that prolongs the war and keeps Hamas alive. To actually destroy Hamas, you would have to kill a lot more civilians. So Israel often settles for destroying weapons caches, tunnels, and structures they operate from.
I mean, if you killed someone who for whatever odd reason played a critical role in the maintenance of a culture, with the stated goal being the extinction of that culture, then yes that's an act of genocide. The fact that the event itself is a bit strange doesn't change what it is.
The systematized way that Canada's residential schools literally beat their native tongue out of the native children they were put in charge of was also an act of genocide. It isn't an error in the interpretation, it's what the word is.
> (in which case, isn’t even murder of an Israeli by Hamas or other organizations whose intent is to destroy a genocide?)
Yes, but they're not the ones aggressing. No one is saying Israel's neighbors are innocent, but Israel is currently, actively engaged in an ethnic cleansing. The fact that those they're cleansing wouldn't do the same back to them given the chance both doesn't make that okay and is irrelevant.
> Yes, it does. It is in fact this attempt to do less harm that prolongs the war and keeps Hamas alive. To actually destroy Hamas, you would have to kill a lot more civilians. So Israel often settles for destroying weapons caches, tunnels, and structures they operate from.
Well then they fucked up about 47,000 times by official numbers.
You do know this war started with a massive assault by Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, and other Palestinian groups, right? They attacked Israel, targeting civilians in a brutal assault, starting this war. If you start a war, you are the aggressor, even if you lose.