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Comment by jjcm | Hacker News Reader

Disclaimer - I used to work on Bing like... 8 years ago.

There's probably some debate around whether this is nefarious or genius, but I'd lead towards the later. "google" has always been one of the number one search terms, and the amount of people who would open chrome, search for google in the address bar, then open google in the google search results, then do their search, was wild. There's a very large percentage of less technical people who aren't looking for Google, they're looking for search, and in their mind the two are the same.

They likely don't care what search engine they're using, so I suspect this actually captures a very large amount of search volume, while still solving the intent of the user.

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Disclamer - I owned a restaurant that gave Pepsi products to customers who explicitly ask for a Coke.

There's probably some debate about whether this is nefarious or genius, but I lean towards the later. "Coke" has always been the number one request from our patrons, and the amount of people who just wanted any soda but said "coke" was wild. there's a very large percentage of poorly palated patrons who aren't looking for a Coca-Cola, they're looking for a soda, and in their mind the two are the same.

They likely don't care which soda they're drinking, so I suspect this actually captures a very large amount of soda sales, while still solving the intent of the patron.

What's that? There's a process server outside? Whatever for?

A perfect analogy, if I were to trust the glass with my deepest darkest secrets, had a relationship with it going back decades, expect it to point me to the right direction and keep track of much of my correspondence, and so on and so forth.

OK, maybe a glass of soft drink somehow doesn’t do that, but I suppose it’s perfect analogy adjacent.

> Disclamer - I owned a restaurant that gave Pepsi products to customers who explicitly ask for a Coke.

I have in fact heard "coke" used as a generic before. Just like google, kleenex, champaign, cheddar, ...

This example was doomed from the start because of this fact.

A lot of the US south uses the generic "coke."* It is not uncommon for this conversation to play out: "Can I get a coke?" "Sure, which kind?" "A Coke" (or a pepsi, or fanta)

In my neck of the woods we call it "pop" which always sounded strange to me in isolation.

* As famously depicted in the 2003 Harvard Dialect Survey.

That's what makes it work as a metaphor, I think. Our former Microsoft friend above says that when people ask for "google search," what they mean is "any search engine," just as people in Georgia say "coke" when they mean "a soda." You say the right response is "sure, what kind," but the Microsoft solution is to serve them a Pepsi that they disguised to resemble a Coca-Cola at first glance.

To avoid the whole question of if they carry pepsi or coke I usually just ask for a pepsi-coke and I've yet to run into any problems.

But at the very least they need to say "No Coke. Pepsi."

I don't see anything wrong with that. Coke is pretty much generic term. And Pepsi and Coke and other brands of cola flavored sweetened water are all pretty much the same.

People shouldn't be drinking this stuff at all anyways. It should be mandatorily white labeled anyways.

This was so offensive to imagine as a Coke fan, great choice of metaphor!

I definitely get what you're saying - there's an element here of taking what a customer asks for and returning something different, but I think it's an imperfect analogy.

It's not bringing them a Coke, it's bringing them a dispenser that says "Cola" next to a fridge with options. For people who just want Cola, it's immediately available. For those with a brand choice, there are additional options.

The reality I'm trying to portray though is that the demographic of people who search "Google" in a search field rarely overlaps with the demographic of people who are opinionated about their search tool, so this ends up serving a segment of the population in the way they expected.

> I definitely get what you're saying - there's an element here of taking what a customer asks for and returning something different

taking money for this is literally Google's business model

search for geico, entire initally visible results page is other insurance companies

It’s a cheap trick from some 20 year old fresh out of college. It works though but it makes Microsoft look soft and somehow non professional. But still good for them if they get to convert a few users

> I owned a restaurant that gave Pepsi products to customers who explicitly ask for a Coke.

Did you tell them they were drinking Pepsi or ask some variant of "Is Pepsi okay?"

In response to their request, I said nothing and brought them a red and white paper cup with "Cola" written on it in the Coca-Cola font.

Are you from the PR Disaster Mitigation Department trying to find justification for this?

What are you talking about?

A pretty common interaction is:

Me: Can I have a coke?

Waiter: Is pepsi okay?

Me: That's fine

Waiter: brings a Pepsi

It seems that the above commentor doesn't have this exchange but instead silently substitutes.

I have no idea why there's a process server outside, but rest easy, it's nothing to do with serving Pepsi.

If you ask someone for a Kleenex, are you going to be angry if they give you some other brand of paper tissue?

> there's a very large percentage of poorly palated patrons

You should look into writing poetry. ;D

I don't care either way. Brands don't exist, grow up.

Sorry to break it to you, but yes they do.

except you can kill someone by switching their choice of foods. why would you do that?

> They likely don't care what search engine they're using

That's nothing, for our next iteration our navigation system will take you to the nearest Woolworths because they've got a commercial partnership with us even though the customer quite clearly said 'Coles'. It's likely they don't care.

Huh, imagine if current operating system trends are applied to car computers. "To store your seat settings across reboots, get our Comfort subscription. [Subscribe] [Not Now]".

In fact, how shitty have OSes become that they are nagware now?

If you want to make it more accurate, the car started in the Woolworths parking lot or something. But that doesn't capture many of the other aspects. Hmm.

My best attempt at this car analogy is more like... you walk over to some idling Lyft drivers and say you need an Uber to Coles. And then one of them drives you to Coles instead of driving you to the nearest Uber idling spot.

This comment tells me everything I need to know about the kind of people that work at Microsoft.

Which is... that they're all geniuses?

More like, they think that deceiving people for profit is genius.

If they didn't care what search engine they were using, would it be necessary to make it look so much like the google homepage?

Older people don’t understand the idea of “search engine”, they understand “google”. They don’t realize you can “google” through Bing as well. I hate it, but it is what it is.

I mean, i would describe what you are describing as them actually caring a lot what search engine they are using, but possibly out of ignorance.

Because they think it is genius.

It's genius to copy your competitor because the user might not notice and you can also solve their problem? I don't think it's genius.

Misleading people is always nefarious full stop. It's not your job to decide whether or not someone else cares, it's theirs.

It can be both. And it is.

Machiavellian, even.

https://ianchadwick.com/machiavelli/chapters-15-21/chapter-1...

That makes no sense. If they don't care what search engine they're using, why do it?

The ones debating whether this is nefarious or not are the ones ruining the tech industry. This is absolutely nefarious. Whether or not it's a clever path to promotion due to corporate incentives is irrelevant.

I'm curious what part of Microsoft's culture enables these satirically slimy product decisions. In theory, other megacorps should be no better, but somehow they seem to maintain a bar that Microsoft always manages to stoop below

I haven’t heard anyone utter anything but disgust at accidentally using bing. They know.

The fact windows is full of dark patterns to try and get you to use it is pathetic disrespectful hubris not genius.

With all due respect, still feels bs to rationalizing the intentional misleding of these poor people. It is not a coincidence that Google and search is the same in their heads.

Is it bad to mislead these poor people when the outcome is better? Google is not good at returning results and is exceptionally good at directing nontechnical users to malicious ads. Bing is saving people.

If a user is not equipped to determine the difference between Google and Bing, you should not redirect them to a website which is 80% ads.

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