However, I’m a AAA gamedev CTO and they might have been telling me what the card means to me.
P.S. Also, VR. For VR you need 2x4k at 90+ stable fps. There's (almost) no vr games though
What "modern games" and "modern cards" are you specifically talking about here? There are plenty of AAA games released last years that you can do 4K at 60fps with a RTX 3090 for example.
Not when you turn on ray tracing.
Also 60fps is pretty low, certainly isn't "high fps" anyway
You can't get high frame rates with path tracing and 4K. It just doesn't happen. You need to enable DLSS and frame gen to get 100fps with more complete ray and path tracing implementations.
People might be getting upset because the 4090 is WAY more power than games need, but there are games that try and make use of that power and are actually limited by the 4090.
Case in point Cyberpunk and Indiana Jones with path tracing don't get anywhere near 100FPS with native resolution.
Now many might say that's just a ridiculous ask, but that's what GP was talking about here. There's no way you'd get more than 10-15fps (if that) with path tracing at 8K.
Cyberpunk native 4k + path tracing gets sub-20fps on a 4090 for anyone unfamiliar with how demanding this is. Nvidia's own 5090 announcement video showcased this as getting a whopping... 28 fps: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ff...
I’m sure some will disagree with this but most PC gamers I talk to want to be at 90FPS minimum. I’d assume if you’re spending $1600+ on a GPU you’re pretty particular about your experience.
I don’t really mind low frame rates, but latency is often noticeable and annoying. I often wonder if high frame rates are papering over some latency problems in modern engines. Buffering frames or something like that.
Uhhhhhmmmmmm....what are you smoking?
Almost no one is playing competitive shooters and such at 4k. For those games you play at 1080p and turn off lots of eye candy so you can get super high frame rates because that does actually give you an edge.
People playing at 4k are doing immersive story driven games and consistent 60fps is perfectly fine for that, you don't really get a huge benefit going higher.
People that want to split the difference are going 1440p.
For me, I'd rather play a story based shooter at 1440p @ 144Hz than 4k @ 60Hz.
Also nobody is buying a 4090/5090 for a "fine" experience. Yes 60fps is fine. But better than that is expected/desired at this price point.
I’d say the comparison is what’s faulty, not the example.
I’ve done tons of custom stuff but was at a point where I didn’t have the time for a custom loop. Just wanted plug and play.
Seen some people talking down the block, but honestly I run 50c under saturated load at 400 watts, +225 core, +600 memory with a hot spot of 60c and VRAM of 62c. Not amazing but it’s not holding the card back. That’s with the Phanteks T30’s at about 1200RPM.
Stock cooler I could never get the card stable despite new pads and paste. I was running 280 watts, barely able to run -50 on the core and no offset on memory. That would STILL hit 85c core, 95c hotspot and memory.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-3090-8...
On the planet? Many people. Maybe you're thinking 12K or 16K.
The value just wasn't there and probably won't ever be for most use cases. XR equipment might be an exception, video editing another.
It's uncommon, sure, but as mentioned it was sold to me as being a development board for future resolutions.
Someone else probably said that years ago when everyone was rocking 1080/1440p screens.
What gamers look for is more framerate not particularly resolution. Most new gaming monitors are focusing on high refresh rates.
8K feels like a waste of compute for a very diminished return compared to 4K. I think 8K only makes sense when dealing with huge displays, I’m talking beyond 83 inches, we are still far from that.
Which would then imply that you don't need a display as big as 83" to see the benefits from 8K. Still, we're talking about very large panels here, of the kind that wouldn't even fit many computer desks, so yeah...
How many of the cards of that time would you call “4K cards”? Even the Titan X that came a couple of years later doesn’t really cut it.
There’s such a thing as being too early to the game.
I think the textures and geometry would have the same resolution (or is that not the case? but in 4K if you walk closer to the wall you'd want higher texture resolution as well anyway, if the graphics artists have made the assets at that resolution anyway)
8K screen resolution requires 132 megabytes of memory to store the pixels (for 32-bit color), that doesn't explain gigabytes of extra VRAM
I'd be curious to know what information I'm missing
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/8k/
That said, I recall that the media was more enthusiastic about christening the 4090 as an 8K card than Nvidia was:
https://wccftech.com/rtx-4090-is-the-first-true-8k-gaming-gp...
I didn't know of anyone who used the Titan cards (which were actually priced cheaper than their respective xx90 cards at release) for gaming, but somehow people were happy spending >$2000 when the 3090 came out.
Of course they did, the 3090 came out at the height of the pandemic and crypto boom in 2020, when people were locked indoors with plenty of free time and money to spare, what else where they gonna spend it on?
It won't stop crypto and LLM peeps from buying everything (one assumes TDP is proportional too). Gamers not being able to find an affordable option is still a problem.
Used to think about this often because I had a side hobby of building and selling computers for friends and coworkers that wanted to get into gaming, but otherwise had no use for a powerful computer.
For the longest time I could still put together $800-$1000 PC's that could blow consoles away and provide great value for the money.
Now days I almost want to recommend they go back to console gaming. Seeing older ps5's on store shelves hit $349.99 during the holidays really cemented that idea. Its so astronomically expensive for a PC build at the moment unless you can be convinced to buy a gaming laptop on a deep sale.
Consoles have historically not done so well with backwards compatibility (at most one generation). I don't do much console gaming but _I think_ that is changing.
There is also something to be said about catalog portability via something like a Steam Deck.
Personally, I just don't like that its attached to steam. Which is why I can be hesitant to suggest consoles as well now that they have soft killed their physical game options. Unless you go out of your way to get the add-on drive for PS5, etc
Its been nice to see backwards compatibility coming back in modern consoles to some extent with Xbox especially if you have a Series-X with the disc drive.
I killed my steam account with 300+ games just because I didn't see a future where steam would actually let me own the games. Repurchased everything I could on GoG and gave up on games locked to Windows/Mac AppStores, Epic, and Steam. So I'm not exactly fond of hardware attached to that platform, but that doesn't stop someone from just loading it up with games from a service like GoG and running them thru steam or Heroic Launcher.
2024 took some massive leaps forward with getting a proton-like experience without steam and that gives me a lot of hope for future progress on Linux gaming.
Just out of interest, if I bought a PS5 with the drive, and a physical game, would that work forever (just for single-player games)?
Like you, I like to own the things I pay for, so it's a non-starter for me if it doesn't.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-gm200.g772
Beginning with Pascal, Nvidia’s top GPU was not available in consumer graphics cards:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-gp100.g792
Turing was a bit weird since instead of having a TU100, they instead had Volta’s GV100:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-tu102.g813
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-gv100.g809
Then there is Ampere’s GA100 that never was used in a consumer graphics card:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ga100.g931
Ada was again weird as instead of a AD100, it had the GH100:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ad102.g1005
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-gh100.g1011
Now with Blackwell the GB100 is the high end one that is not going into consumer cards. The 5090 gets GB202 and the 5080 gets GB203.
Rather than the 40 series and 50 series putting the #2 GPU die into the #2 consumer card, they are putting the #3 GPU die into the #2 consumer card.
3080/3090 - Same die
2080 ti/Titan RTX - Same die
1080 ti/Titan Xp - Same die
980 ti/Titan X - Same die
780/Titan - Same die
670/680 - Same die
570/580 - Same die
470/480 - Same die
Only way to fix this is for AMD to decide it likes money. I'm not holding my breath.
Next generation, the are finally reversing course and unifying their AI and GPU architectures (just like nVidia).
2026 is the big year for AMD.
Meanwhile their CPU marketing has numbers and graphs because their at the top of their game and have nothing to hide.
I'm glad they exist because we need the competition, but the GPU market continues to look dreary. At least we have a low/mid range battle going on between the three companies to look forward to for people with sensible gaming budgets.
It's not dissimilar to what happened to Boeing. I'm a capitalist, but the current accounting laws (in particular corporate taxation rules) mean that all companies are pushed to use money for stock buybacks than R&D (which Intel spent more on the former over the latter over the past decade and I'm watching Apple stagnate before my eyes).
It probably serves to make the 4070 look reasonably priced, even though it isn't.
4090 was already priced for high income (in first world countries) people. Nvidia saw 4090s were being sold on second hand market way beyond 2k. They merely milking the cow.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-5070.c4218
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-5090.c4216
It is unlikely that the 5070 and 5090 share the same die when the 4090 and 4080 did not share same die.
Also, could an electrical engineer estimate how much this costs to manufacture:
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-pcb-leak...
It’s not. 14L PCB are expensive. When I looked at Apple cost for their PCB it was probably closer to $50, and they have smaller area
We'll have to see how much they'll charge for these cards this time, but I feel like the price bump has been massively exaggerated by people on HN
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie...
The cards were then sold around that ballpark you said, but that was because the shops could and they didn't say no to more profit.
We will have to wait to see what arbitrary prices the shops will set this time.
If they're not just randomly adding 400+ on top, then the card would cost roughly the same.
https://www.okdo.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/jetson-agx-o...
The 3090 Ti had about 5 times the memory bandwidth and 5 times the compute capability. If that ratio holds for blackwell, the 5090 will run circles around it when it has enough VRAM (or you have enough 5090 cards to fit everything into VRAM).
32gb for the 5090 vs 128gb for digits might put a nasty cap on unleashing all that power for interesting models.
Several 5090s together would work but then we're talking about multiple times the cost (4x$2000+PC VS $3000)
This will make it possible for you to run models up to 405B parameters, like Llama 3.1 405B at 4bit quant or the Grok-1 314B at 6bit quant.
Who knows, maybe some better models will be released in the future which are better optimized and won't need that much RAM, but it is easier to buy a second 'Digits' in comparison to building a rack with 8xGPUs. For example, if you look at the latest Llama models, Meta states: 'Llama 3.3 70B approaches the performance of Llama 3.1 405B'.
To interfere with Llama3.3-70B-Instruct with ~8k context length (without offloading), you'd need: - Q4 (~44GB): 2x5090; 1x 'Digits' - Q6 (~58GB): 2x5090; 1x 'Digits' - Q8 (~74GB): 3x5090; 1x 'Digits' - FP16 (~144GB): 5x5090; 2x 'Digits'
Let's wait and see which bandwidth it will have.
Speculation has it at ~5XXgb/s.
agreed on the memory.
if I can I'll get a few but I fear they'll sell out immediately
5070, 5070 Ti, 5080, 5090 to
5000, 5000 Plus, 5000 Pro, 5000 Pro Max.
:O