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Comment by ty6853 | Hacker News Reader

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It is wholly appropriate for a government act to protect it's citizens' rights including their property rights. Fraud and theft violate those rights.

Your arguments are essentially shifting blame from the fraudster to the victim... not unlike the kind of arguments that suggest certain rapes or murders are also the victim's fault for either dressing suggestively or travelling through the wrong part of town at the wrong time. While those things may actually be unwise, that the victim didn't act with wisdom or prescience doesn't relieve the perpetrator of culpability nor make the victim deserving of such violation. Wisdom merely dictates that it might be better for you to avoid the risk of becoming a victim if you can.

I personally don't engage in these kinds of financial instruments because I feel the risks are pretty high.... but I absolutely applaud the government pursuing a fraudster where ever they can... without regard to the wisdom, or foolishness, of the victim.

Yes and the government is defrauding me claiming this is effective governance and stealing from me to lock these guys up. They are violating my property rights in extraditing kwon.

You are victim blaming me for being unhappy with this.

This is an astounding level of "logical" jumps.

As for why the government is doing this, it's very beneficial for the US to demonstrate its long arm of the law as a lesson to other criminals.

Is it? There is a Korean poster bragging here about how happy they are to have offloaded kwon to the US for a free ride on us since they are too lazy to mete out full punishment of people operating on their turf.

We are a laughing stock. Dump your criminals on the US taxpayers to play world police.

I assume you're talking about my post. If you understood it as "Koreans are laughing at the US," then you need to work on your English comprehension skill.

I understood it as Korean common taxpayer being the real benefactor over the US common taxpayers, since Koreans can shirk the cost of punishing their own and offload it on me while still maintaining the moral high ground since they have a loftier sounding reason for not wanting to foot the bill.

>Yes and the government is defrauding me...

>You are victim blaming me...

I think someone needs to go for a walk.

Someone out there defrauded someone else, only by the greatest stretch did this even occur in even the same country I inhabit. Therefore I must agree to paying to lock up and internationally fly the perpetrator for something that happened in the other hemisphere for a transaction i am in no way connected to,or else I am a victim blamer who needs to take a walk.

I'm not crazy, this world is.

You could take this general concept and apply it to literally any criminal prosecution you disagree with or may feel "disconnected from", domestically or internationally.

There are people who feel that a wrong should be righted, and there are those who may disagree. That's okay. Nobody is crazy for disagreeing. But that's what happens in this sorta system - sometimes, people think money is wasted if it's something that they disagree with. There will never be a way to make everyone agree with every prosecution, or use of tax dollars.

C'est la vie.

I would prefer something more akin to voluntarily funded prosecutions and jailing when they are extraterritorial. That way everyone who pays for something that happened outside where we even have representation at least agrees to it, since we have no real vote on the extraterritorial civil environment.

Okay.

Would you also e.g. applaud Iran trying to extradite you if you watched a pornographic recording of an Iranian woman, even if recorded with her consent?

Would you applaud China for trying to extradite you for "spreading unrest and destabilizing the political situation in the country", AKA posting a meme offensive to their regime?

These are terrible comparisons.

These are bizarrely different situations. The USG has jurisdiction given the definition of fraud, the role of the SEC, and how the company Terraform Labs was formed and operated.

If you don't think so, can you explain why not?

Well, the US dollar is an instrument to serve the interests of the US people. Many Americans were harmed by the collapse, so the government is going to try to claw back what it can for its people. After all, doesn’t matter where you are in the world, if you’ve got USD in your hands, you’re subject to US law.

Lawmakers/prosecutors do know that they are unlikely to recover a majority of lost funds. They’re going to put this man behind bars as a deterrent to others who want to (allegedly) defraud Americans.

After all, doesn’t matter where you are in the world, if you’ve got USD in your hands, you’re subject to US law.

I hope this is meant sarcastically.

This is far more true than you know. Almost everyone in the west is subject to US law via our extra-territorial wire fraud or money laundering statutes that will get you as soon as anything ( read: most everything) you touch remotely touches the US banking system.

I'm aware of this, I'm trying to ascertain whether GP thinks this is great or not.

It’s absolutely true. Be careful out there.

Hmm same country which protects other countries criminals and gives a middle finger to other countrys laws

Do Kwon in bars makes zero material difference or deterrence to the next Do Kwon.

I understand the desire for justice, just sick of the government forcing me at gunpoint to pay to fly around these guys operating overseas stealing from people trying to operate outside the US financial system. Maybe they should take a charity donation for jailing foreign operating criminals and leave me out of it.

You don’t think “the US federal government will come after you if you conduct crime in USD and/or against Americans regardless of where you live/operate your business” is a real deterrent, as compared to “operate abroad and you can victimize Americans at will?”

What happens in reality is the US comes after me to pay to fly and feed these criminals, makes me pay for some prosecutor to get fat on steaks and braces on his kid, meanwhile I get basically fuck all for it other than to watch the next overseas crypto scammer take his place 5 minutes later.

I'm not saying you can't seek justice, i just want to be left out of it.

You pay taxes to the US but don’t benefit from the significant deterrent effect its law enforcement creates against scamming you?

How so?

What evidence do you have extradition of crypto scammers has moved the needle at all on scamming? I'm not seeing the benefit you speak of, a new one pops up 5 minutes later to replace the last.

See prior comment

Oh man, the irony of this response. Do Kwon very specifically did NOT have USD in this situation, and I’m pretty sure his defense will be that there was no representation that the peg would be maintained indefinitely. Whether the evidence points to the contrary is another matter altogether.

>Do Kwon very specifically did NOT have USD in this situation

The indictment lists a bunch of ways that ties his crimes to the US

>KWON solicited and obtained investments from a number of investment firms in the United States and other locations [...]

>DO HYEONG KWON, the defendant, nonetheless fraudulently promoted Chai to investors in the United States [...]

>On or about October 12 , 2020, KWON sent an email to a representative of an investment firm based in New York containing a Terraform promotional document falsely claiming [...]

>On or about October 14 , 2019, KWON made a false and misleading statement during a CNBC presentation transmitted to, among other places, the Southern District of New York, about Chai 's usage of the Tena blockchain [...]

> When you export your electrons from the US, leaving US jurisdiction why must all us taxpayers suffer to protect you? Let the victims seek whatever justice they can find in whatever shithole they did business in.

"all us taxpayers" benefits from capital markets that aren't rife with fraudsters.

It (extraditing crypto scammers) is ineffectual at that pursuit.

So what do you propose we do with scammers, crypto or otherwise? Shrug our shoulders and say "meh"?

This is a preposterous premise in Kwon's case considering the US ripped away competing extradition from his home country and place of part time management of fraud, South Korea.

As a South Korean, I can ensure you that you won't find a single South Korean online who's upset that our country is "robbed" of the chance to give Kwon a slap in the wrist. When it was announced a while ago that Kwon was coming the South Korea, the disappointment was palpable.

Unfortunately South Korea is unreasonable lenient on financial crimes, Koreans all know it, and Kwon himself knows it. That's why he's been fighting to get extradited to Korea instead of the US.

But you said last comment that "extraditing crypto scammers" was "ineffectual"? Which one is it?

I didn't say Koreas punishment would be effectual at securing our markets either. My answer implied it is not equal to shrugging of shoulders. Your false dichotomy here is totally illogical.

So US putting scammer in jail... "ineffectual", but South Korea doing the same is effectual? Are US prisons that much cushier that South Korean prisons?

To be clear I think jailing foreign crypto scammers is ineffectual at securing US markets but more cathartic to victims than shrugging shoulders.

At the very least there seems to be little to no evidence it moves the needle.

If you asked me I'd say most effectual would be a combination of public announcements on avoiding crypto scams and a revival of banking secrecy with no kyc or AML, as that would steal massive capital from crypto markets and scammers.

No arguing OPs point, but their prisons are vastly different.

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