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Comment by carabiner | Hacker News Reader

Seattle is an 8 pm city. I'd love for anything to be open late here.

There used to be late night coffee shops, and more late night restaurants.

That mostly went away years ago, basically completely died in COVID, and the labor shortages in the service industry never eased up enough to maintain staffing at places that had late night hours. And I do mean not enough people; the housing shortage is so acute that service workers cannot find places to live.

> the housing shortage is so acute that service workers cannot find places to live.

You can trace all kinds of seemingly unrelated problems back to the "housing theory of everything".

Rhode Island didn't have a lot of late night coffee shops even before the pandemic. But after it they're neigh impossible to find. At least outside of Providence.

But why are Yemeni coffee shops immune to these issues?

I think the answer is they are a tighter knit community (potentially a family) than the average coffee shop, so easier to keep the shop staffed late.

I mean, in Texas is decidedly not in Seattle so the real estate dynamics are significantly different.

Houston has addressed population growth by spreading ever more outwards, because it is flat with few natural barriers. Seattle hasn’t really had a choice other than to grow upwards, since it is hemmed in by lakes and mountains in every direction. But like most American metropolitan areas, most of the Seattle region has until fairly recently been opposed to density.

The resulting housing crunch has resulted in significant demands for wages to pay for housing. Houston follows the federal tipped minimum wage of $2.13/hr. Seattle does not have a different payscale for tipped workers so the minimum is $20.76/hr.

There’s cultural aspects to it. Europe, Middle East and Asia has a culture where there’s enough people up and about till late. People anre anre outside, often at third places like coffee shops that allow you to spend time without spending a ton. Even if you’re at home, you are not in bed at 9, like majority of Americans. I would assume the clientele at the Yemeni shops comes from a place that has the “stay out till late” culture.

Not all of Europe. I live in Ljubljana, Slovenia (the capital), and apart from 3 gas stations and 1 pharmacy, literally nothing works at night (2 or 3 nightclubs on the weekends). And people don't find it odd or have any significant dislike for it.

The rest of the country is even worse for night people like myself.

Yeah, I hate how COVID changed things so much for the worse.

If I was a crazy billionaire, I'd open a good pizza place in SLU or somewhere central with pies that cost $20 for a large, open til 3 am. Maybe aim to lose no more than $5,000 per month. It would not be profitable with the crazy high minimum wage, so I would just accept the loss for providing this benefit to the city.

The problem isn’t that the demand isn’t there or that the wage costs are too high. The main problems are high real estate costs and local regulations that prevent you from running a 24x7 cafe.

Or just charge what it costs to not lose money, the demand is there.

In cities like this people will travel a significant distance for hot food. And there’s always the delivery apps, too.

Then why are there almost no restaurants doing this? I see this in /r/seattle a lot: everyone asking for late night food, then restauranteurs saying there's not enough demand.

It's a billionaire, the point is to undermine the possibility of a market.

A Pizza Mart is open until 2am, at least in Belltown but you can only get a medium for around $20.

Ithaca used to have 24 hour businesses but since the pandemic and the 10x-ing of the homeless colony they are long gone.

How I miss when 13 Coins was 24/7 - the pandemic killed that.

It was a lifesaver for me when I worked grave, I could go for a sumptuous dinner at 3 or 4 am.

How does homelessness relate at all?

Similar to public bathrooms - if a business is open 24 hours and you can stick around in there in the heated / cooled interior that's good for the homeless person, but maybe bad for loitering or the business.

I can't imagine a business closing over it, but having a closing time is a good way to get people to leave maybe?

People with schizophrenia spazzing out, police calls, etc. There has been a huge increase in disturbed behavior in public.

I feel you. Most Seattle people are homebodies by their own admission. Anything open after 9 pm is usually a bar.

Also, things have gotten worse after the pandemic. Low revenue after 9 pm (unless alcohol is involved), high labor costs, and safety issues means the juice is not worth the squeeze for most retail businesses here.

When I used to live in Chicago, the economics worked out differently, so there were many businesses that opened late.

Is that cause or effect? If there is nothing to do, you stop going out to do it, and then you forget how to be social. Seems like a vicious cycle.

It's both. Seattle is one of the most introverted cities in the US (socially, it's disproportionately shaped by the tech population). Seattle Freeze is a real thing. COVID also did a number on people worldwide.

Also, gloomy weather 7-8 months of the year makes you not want to socialize.

I don't know if tech has anything to do with it. The Yemeni coffee shops in the article have been thriving for years in San Francisco

Supposedly it's Seattle's scandinavian origins. Obviously Seattle is a big coffee town but the cafe vibes are definitely different from SF's, or LA's.

For anyone looking for late night activities here: Swing dancing is a great late night activity in Seattle - multiple live jazz bands a month (at least once a week), and very low alcohol consumption (people mainly go to dance/practice). It'll be sad to see the Century Ballroom closing its doors this spring.

Portland is the same. There used to be Coffee Time on NW 21st, but that now closes at 6pm, too.

There was one on SE Powell close to the bridge

Dick’s is open till 2 am :)

Also a lot of kebab places which aren't bad. But like, something like a late night kbbq place that's all smoky inside would be amazing.

Mox, a balacear to play board games that also serves coffee and food is open till midnight, at least on the weekends. They close at 10 on weekdays

Covid wiped out a lot of 24 hour spots in all the big metro markets.

Revenue halted overnight, and often turned negative with breakins and general insecurity

Employees also realized that being home at night is nice and they refuse to go back to working 24x7.

Pittsburgh is the same way. I miss the 24/7 eat and park.

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