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Comment by bhouston | Hacker News Reader

I didn't say it was an official patch.

Settler ambitions are real though:

Settlement movement for Southern Lebanon: https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-movement-to-settle-sou.... Unclear if this will happen, depends if Israel actually does withdraw fully or not.

Resettlement movement for Gaza: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Israeli_resettlement_.... This is likely to happen on Trumps watch in Northern Gaza. The General's Plan is clearing out Northern Gaza of Arabs as we speak.

Permanent annexation of Golan Heights, and more land taken in Syria for the "foreseeable future": https://www.cbc.ca/news/israel-occupy-buffer-zone-syria-neta...

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The alleged patch suggests that there is some Israeli ambition to conquer all of the Levant. There is no such Israeli settler movement.

As far as Lebanon, there is no mainstream support whatsoever to settle north of the Blue Line. The article you linked describes the idea as "far-right". I would invite you to talk to an Israeli and ask them what they think about Israel annexing Lebanon.

Gaza is entirely different. There was a centuries-old Jewish presence in Gaza until 1929, when the Jews were ethnically cleansed by an Arab pogrom. That same Jewish-owned land was resettled again in 1946, but the Egyptians ethnically cleansed Gaza again in 1948, and kept Gaza Judenrein until 1967. Israel decided to pull all Jews out of Gaza again in a bid for peace in 2005, but of course we all know how that turned out.

It is an ideology that is gaining popularity in Israel though. I am regurgitating what Israel's own Finance minister is saying.

"In an interview for the documentary, In Israel: Ministers of Chaos, produced by European public service channel, Arte, [Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel] Smotrich claimed that Israel would expand “little by little” and eventually encompass all Palestinian territories as well as Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia."

https://javafilms.fr/film/israel-ministers-of-chaos/

This is a minister who is very powerful in the current Israeli government. To dismiss this is pretty weird. He doesn't hide his ambitions.

I am actually agreeing with him that this is likely to try to happen least for the foreseeable future. The trends point in this direction.

I have little desire to defend Smotrich (nor would Israelis, as his extremist party is currently polling at ~3% support), but even he wouldn't dare claim support for something as far-flung as the alleged "Greater Israel" ideology.

On the contrary, after Smotrich was merely perceived to lend support for expansionism, having spoken at a conference behind a graphic reminiscent of the Irgun's emblem depicting the entire Mandate for Palestine, it triggered a minor diplomatic incident, and the Israeli government immediately apologized to Jordan and clarified that Israel is committed to maintaining its peace agreement with Jordan.

But all of this is a smokescreen: Israel is a democracy desperately suing for peace with its neighbors, and at no point in history has initiated a war to expand its borders (or for any other purpose). There is no popular support for attacking or invading Israel's neighbors within the country, and there has never been such a policy in the country's history.

The 1956 Sinai campaign is a counter example of how opportunism has always trumped any desire for peace. If it weren't for Eisenhower, they'd had gotten away with it as well.

Source: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-12-09/ty-article/.p...

The current Syria campaign is another counter example. Look at how they have systematically captured all water resources East of the Golan heights. Whoever is in charge is suing for expansion, not peace.

Source: https://syria.liveuamap.com/

> at no point in history has initiated a war to expand its borders (or for any other purpose)

Israel started the Six Day War claiming that the closing of straits was a grounds for war, this justifying their first strike, but they have had Gaza under siege and blockade for years, and don't consider it a grounds for war when they do it to others. Just one small point

Again here is both Haaretz and Times of Israel articles that are discussing Greater Israel ideology:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42546044

You can continue to say it is far flung or a conspiracy but apparently Israeli newspapers disagree with you. Honestly who am I to believe? Random anonymous commenter on hacker news or many articles in Israeli newspapers written by journalists? I’ll go with Israeli newspapers and real journalists.

Israel is a democracy desperately suing for peace with its neighbors, and at no point in history has initiated a war to expand its borders (or for any other purpose).

'56, '67 and '82 were all unambiguously started by Israel.

It is also currently engaged in an effort, which it initiated on December 9th, to expand its illegally annexed territorial holdings in Syria as we speak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_invasion_of_Syria...

This is an insightful and correct comment.

Up front, I am a fervent Zionist, with just a personal musing:

Accumulation of many discussions post 10/7 made me reevaluate how I think, and thus talk about, the greater Israeli political factors.

It's unconvincing when framed in terms of more rabid politicians with little popular support. At the end of the day, people correctly perceive that this isn't a temporary political situation, even when they don't know a Smotrich from a Smeagol.

If they do, it's unconvincing because these people are the government, and hold the levers of power to implement the vision regardless of what percentage of voters back it up specifically. To wit, Ben-Gvir proudly announcing new settlements in Golan Heights.

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