Comment by mikae1 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikae1 | Hacker News Reader

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If you accept Android as an option, then GrapheneOS probably check a lot of your boxes on an OS level. GrapheneOS developers sit between you and Google and make sure that shit like this isn't introduced without the user's knowledge. They actively strip out crap that goes against users interests and add features that empower us.

I find that the popular apps for basic operation from F-Droid do a very good job of not screwing with the user either. I'm talking about DAVx⁵, Etar, Fossify Gallery, K-9/Thunderbird, AntennaPod etc. No nonsense software that does what I want and nothing more.

I've been running deGoogled Android devices for over a decade now for private use and I've been given Apple devices from work during all those years. I still find find the iOS devices to be a terrible computing experience. There's a feeling of being reduced to a mere consumer.

GrapheneOS is the best mobile OS I've ever tried. If you get a Pixel device, it's dead simple to install via your desktop web browser[1] and has been zero maintenance. Really!

[1] https://grapheneos.org/install/web

Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders, and it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps. You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people.

Graphene mitigates the locked bootloader issue by only supporting one line of phones (Pixel), which have unlocked bootloaders.

A large amount of work has been put into making Graphene specifically work with banking apps. Mine does, for instance.

Are Calyx or Lineage worth a look? It’s a tough choice between the 3.

I've used Lineage. I'd say it's worth a look, yes. I got a Pixel for Graphene, though.

I've happily used LineageOS without gapps for years across several OnePlus devices. If I ever need a new phone I check their supported devices list to pick, and the stock ROM on my new device gets overwritten the day it arrives. Currently using a OnePlus 8T. When I move on from this device as my primary someday, I may put postmarketOS on it to extend its usefulness.

Don't forget Anom. (A cautionary tale.) https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/146/

> Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders

GrapheneOS only works on Pixel devices. Pixel devices are fine. We have reached a point where just about every mid-tier device is fine, really. I run my devices until they are FUBAR or can't be updated due to EOL. EOL for Android (and GrapheneOS) is ~7 years from the release date now.

> it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps.

These can be installed and isolated using work or user profiles in GrapheneOS. Also as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538853 points out, a lot of work has been put into making Graphene work with banking apps[1].

> You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people.

Of course I do. We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other.

[1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

You don't need tons of choice, but sufficient availability of a decent enough choice. The google piexel line supported by grapheneos is one.

My budget didn't allow me to buy a brand new one but I could buy a second hand pixel 6a for 200€.

Having said that you can also use an older phone with /e/os or lineageos and avoid apps that tracks you by limiting to android apps without telemetry available on f-droid.

That's great... for the HN reader.

However, how is that supposed to work for your significant other, or your mother, or your indifferent-to-technology friend?

Don't get me wrong, I also strive to keep my device's information private but, at the same time, I realize this has no practical use for most users.

We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other.

That said. You can order a Pixel with GrapheneOS pre-installed and Google Apps and services can be isolated.

You install it from them. Past the initial install they get OTA updates.

Having said that it doesn't prevent them to check the "enable network" option when installing apps.

The solution is the general populace becoming more tech literate, much like I became more literate in the yellow pages 20 years ago.

The reality is these are no longer mere tools, they are instruments for conducting life. They are a prerequisite to just about any activity, much like driving in the US.

We expect each and every citizen to have an intimate understanding of driving, including nuances, and an understanding of any and all traffic laws. And we expect them to do it in fractions of a second. Because that is the cost of utilizing those instruments to conduct life.

As the GP already mentioned, F-Droid (as great as it is) won't help you access your bank account.

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