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Comment by DragonStrength | Hacker News Reader

From an American's perspective, given how much Latin American migrant inflow we have, it'd be easy for us to say the same about Latin American cultures and not imagining how we could leave everything behind. Perhaps people's choices don't always reflect their desires and instead reflect the economic realities around them. "Getting out" is viewed as success where I was from because "staying behind" meant a worse life for those who didn't come from wealth.

Reminds me of all these older Americans talking about how "people don't want kids these days" when polling shows younger folks want just as many kids as their own parents but can't afford them.

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100% of Latin Americans you see are migrants because, well, you are in the US. You are only seeing exceptions.

The immense majority of Latin American don’t live in the US neither migrate there.

Presumably at least _some_ are descendants from when a big chunk of the US was part of Mexico, so I would imagine the number is less than 100% (but probably close to it, the region wasn't very populated)

I’d guess possibly a majority would migrate there if given the opportunity to do so safely, legally and without abandoning immediate family though

Not everyone, I was given the option to go to the US legally (L1 visa) and passed on it, the person that chose to go instead regretted it and came back.

I am from Uruguay though, which is the best Latin American country, so YMMV, if I was from Venezuela I'd move to the US 100%.

You could say the same about the US-born, so I think you missed my point since you're trying to draw distinctions between the US-born and Latin American-born based on, well, I'm not sure what honestly. Your response is a bit odd, but kind of proves my point about pathologizing the ills of America and romanticizing other cultures, even those which are decidedly "Western" as well.

Statistically the number of Latin American migrants that move to the US yearly is tiny compared to the internal migration and especially to the number of people in Latin America who didn't go anywhere, though. The fact the it's not 100% who don't move doesn't really disprove anything.

It seems you haven’t read the context here where Americans are being framed as lacking community values because some small percentage migrate internally for better economic opportunities. The people here who see Americans who have moved to big cities form smaller places are seeing the exception, not the rule, as was pointed out elsewhere with statistics.

You’re proving my point exactly: those characterizations, especially in the context of Latin American culture as a foil, reveal their own biases. Both are based on anecdotes and vibes, not reality. To me, it's all narcissism of minor differences. I find the need to paint whole cultures with such a broad brush weird, especially based on my experience with people from around the world: most people aren't so different.

> Both are based on anecdotes and vibes, not reality. To me, it's all narcissism of minor differences

I think most are thinking about a higher proportion of adults living at the same household as their parents in some countries when they say that. However in recent year the proportion in the US got a lot closer to Latin American countries. Then again it probably significantly varies by race, ethnic background etc. which doesn't invalidate the anecdotal evidence people might have.

> cultures with such a broad brush weird, especially

US is very heterogeneous but it works reasonably well in many other places besides a handful of outliers.

You’re coming across as disagreeing with me, but it’s unclear about what. Your response to the out-of-context bit at the bottom seems to agree with my central statement about the negative framing of American values in the OP, so I’m very confused what your point is.

> but it’s unclear about what.

True. Looking back you hadn't really made any coherent enough arguments in your comments that could be agreed or disagreed with.

We tend to be pushed towards immigration because of a lack of safety, of growth opportunities, and no hope that things will get any better.

With that in mind, if Latin America had safety, I suspect at least half of the immigrants wouldn't leave, especially the ones who are able to hold a middle class job.

Most of us would live in a lower standard of life if it allowed to stay close to friends and family. But not being able to walk down the street bears a heavy weight on our anxieties.

And the impoverished areas of America are also where gun crime and drug overdoses are the most common. Oh, and don't forget losing healthcare and education services as the area continues to decline. These things go together just like in Latin America.

Moving in response to this reality is not an American values problems. I find the instinct to blame Americans for their discontent while framing others in the same situation as victims quite odd.

More $$$ is a strong motivator.

Latin American tends to be unsafe (physically), but the money probably plays a bigger motivating factor. Remittances and ‘doing it for the family back home’ are common themes.

> Latin American tends to be unsafe (physically)

Depending on which country and which city, Latin American cities are not more dangerous than risky US cities. Many of our cities are reasonably safe. There are burglaries, muggings and robbery like in most big cities all over the world -- no more, and no less.

There are some "trouble" hot spots that are particularly dangerous, of course. The same can be said of the US.

Risky US cities are pretty risky though. Which is why I said that.

Let me rephrase then: average Latin American cities in many countries are comparable to average US cities.

There are trouble hotspots (and countries) just as there are trouble hotspots in the US.

It's not true that Latin America as a whole is "unsafe". It's not Ciudad Juárez everywhere. I live in Buenos Aires and there's crime comparable to any big city (with better and worse periods, of course).

And large portions of the population (much more than in the US) live in areas that have violent crime and murder rates higher than the worse parts of Oakland. And that isn’t even counting Guatemala as it’s just ‘adjacent’.

Southern South America isn’t bad, but also doesn’t have many people in it.

The children of that immigrants are growing up and seem to have less concern about the cousins back in the old country - their home is the US as are all their friends. The people back in the old country are interesting but not really relevant.

Same as it ever was. Not a lot of Irish, Norwegian, English, French, Germans still keep in contact with ‘home’ after 2-3 generations either.

> when polling shows younger folks want just as many kids as their own parents but can't afford them.

it isn't just that they can't afford them, it's that the standards for "good parenting" have increased. Simultaneously, both partners have less time for raising kids because of economic pressure

But the state doesn't subsidize childcare or offer universal pre-K, so the only real solution is to keep importing people from more "trad" cultures until the whole thing blows up

> From an American's perspective, given how much Latin American migrant inflow we have, it'd be easy for us to say the same about Latin American cultures and not imagining how we could leave everything behind.

If you'd wish to make that claim then you'd be awfully wrong.

To start off, you'd be basing your personal opinion on what would most charitably be described as survivorship bias. I mean, try to think about it. The observable sample you're trying to generalize is a tiny subset of a whole population which is the output of a social process subjected to a long sequence of socioeconomical filters.

It would make as much sense as to claim that the average American is excellent at American football by using NFL teams as your sample of the US population.

That the claim would be wrong is my whole point. Equally wrong to the original claims being made about the US population and their values.

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