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Comment by nijave | Hacker News Reader

I'm curious if that's really true. I've had a Yubikey in my keyring for years and it's pretty convenient. It's smaller than my car key and isn't very noticeable.

I have the NFC enabled variant so it can be used with a mobile phone

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I also have a Yubikey for work, so I know how they work and how small they are.

I still stand by the idea that most users wouldn't be happy having to cary it around. We can't even get most users to use password managers which are built into their phones (1 in 3) and there was a collective meltdown when Apple removed the headphone jack which required people to cary a dongle for wired headphones. Telling people they need to cary around a yubikey for anything they want to log into just isn't going to fly.

https://www.security.org/digital-safety/password-manager-ann...

I’m trying to get people at my workplace to use yubikeys. I would have thought it’d be easy, since “touch the blinking green circle on your yubikey” is a way less obnoxious form of 2FA than “pull out your phone, wait for a text, type in the number” or “pull out your phone, open up the 2FA app, scroll to the service, type in the number”. I was wrong though, it’s like pulling teeth and I’m not sure why!

I think you’re right, any change has to fight against the “this is how I do it already” inertia.

For me, the problem with YubiKeys is not the normal usage. That works great.

The problems are the "corner" cases: enrolling new keys, removing old keys, handling unintentional destruction of the key. The last one, in particular, is really problematic.

Some of the security mechanisms that a YubiKey provides are an extreme inconvenience. For example, I want to be able to clone my key via some mechanism in case it gets destroyed. I don't want to have to enroll 3 separate keys in every service on the planet just in case I put one in the wash accidentally. That's not possible with a YubiKey--for good reason--but it's a significant annoyance.

We consider "duplicating a physical key" such a common need that we have automated machines to do it at 7 Eleven. The fact that we don't have the same consideration of digital ones is problematic.

Yubikey was even planning working on a FIDO extension that would allow that for a while, but I don't think it went anywhere.

It's a real shame, as I'd also love "Yubikey twins" of which I can put one in a safe deposit box and have the other one always with me, without needing to periodically synchronize them to all services I'm using them on.

How is a Yubikey any different than other physical keys people have been carrying for hundreds of years? It seems much more intuitive to carry a digital key for your digital accounts.

Password managers have the added complexity of still needing a password themselves and all the quirks that come with auto filling and programmatically reading forms.

I'm not sure Apple head phones are quite a fair comparison. Outrage was also due to proprietary connectors that were patent encumbered.

Where can I call to get the Yubikey locksmith in the middle of the night to show up and let me into all my accounts if I lose my Yubikey?

I lost my yubikey once. There are always ways to recover your accounts, and it's especially easy for ones you're already signed into on multiple devices.

nsa.gov - they are great, 5 stars

They're completely different! The similarity is at the physical/surface level only.

Physical keys work in one (or rarely in several, but basically unchanging set of) locks, and I carry around about 2-3 of them.

Hardware security keys, by contrast, work in many different places/accounts, potentially even for multiple accounts on the same service, but only after registering them there.

That's not how people experience physical keys: You don't, for example, move apartments or visit a friend, and the landlord/friend "registers/adds your key for their lock". If you lose your physical key, you can't "quickly revoke it from all doors" that it locks (without kicking everybody else out).

> How is a Yubikey any different than other physical keys people have been carrying for hundreds of years?

1. Not everyone caries keys (I don't and haven't for years)

2. Because every other existing alternative doesn't require you to cary something extra. Asking people to cary something with them to be able to sign into accounts will feel like a step backwards to most people.

3. Because most people only need to pull out their keys a few times a day. Requiring a Yubikey for every sign in means you'd now need to constantly be pulling your Yubikey out to sign into things.

> Password managers have the added complexity of still needing a password themselves and all the quirks that come with auto filling and programmatically reading forms.

I don't buy this. I use Lastpass which is arguably the most widely used password manager. I sign in using the master password maybe once a month and it works seamlessly on my phone. Apple and Google both have their own native solutions as well and still only 1/3 of people use them.

> Outrage was also due to proprietary connectors that were patent encumbered.

I think you're living in a bubble. Just go look back at the headlines from when that was announced. Almost no one gave a shit about it being a proprietary connector. People were upset because they were being forced to buy and cary a bunch of dongles. Just look at the comments on these reddit posts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works...

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5j66d4/the_world_isn...

https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/ox3s26/apple_do_...

> 3. Because most people only need to pull out their keys a few times a day. Requiring a Yubikey for every sign in means you'd now need to constantly be pulling your Yubikey out to sign into things.

I just leave it connected to my computer. It requires a physical touch for every interaction so it can't be 'milked' for tokens like old fashioned smart cards.

I used to do that for a while, and it got annoying very quickly. It still requires grabbing my keychain when e.g. sitting on the couch or lying in bed, NFC doesn't always read (there's very little UX feedback on whether I'm holding it in the right place and there is possibly an application layer problem or I'm not even close), and most of all it doesn't work on my computer, where I need to plug it in to the USB-C port (much less seamless than tapping).

Now I only have the Yubikey as a backup authenticator for my most valuable accounts and use a software solution for most low-value things.

Yes, it's really true. How many of your friends and family members carry around a yubikey?

The technically savvy do. The others don't but not because they don't want to--they don't know they exist. Everyone I know carries around NFC devices--either work badges or credit cards. I don't see how having an extra NFC device in addition to the multiple ones you already have is a burden.

I'm technically savvy. I don't nor want to own one.

Why should I be forced to pay for a YubiKey? €60 is a fair chunk of money.

Maybe buy me one I'll consider it otherwise I'm not convinced. I will once corporate gives me free open-source hardware.

I'm an EM at a large tech company. Spent a decade as a developer. I have a Yubikey for work and I hate it. I understand why I need it and the value it provides, but I hate having to cary around one more thing.

The fact that this user thinks the average person would be happy to have to cary one around is wildly out of touch.

> The technically savvy do.

That's my point.

Yubikey doesn't pass the grandma test. Your everyday user isn't going to be carrying one around anytime soon.

It's actually a LOT easier to explain to your grandma than a recent MFA app like Microsoft authenticator that requires a smartphone, the user to unlock it, choose the notification, to enter a code from a list and confirm with fingerprint.

With passkeys via yubikey it's insert key, enter pincode (just like at the atm), touch and go. You don't even have to enter your account name or email because that's derived automatically.

Anyone who can get cash out can use a yubikey. Very different for MFA apps.

My mother will not learn to use a Yubikey, or remember to carry one. You may not believe that (or simply dismiss anyone who won't/can't as unworthy to join in on modern life), but I can assure you it's true.

Have you actually tried this? I’ve found yhe Yubikey model is much easier for normal people because they’re used to using physical keys or cards. What’s hard is a) the cost and b) the hassle of having to pair multiple keys, which is where the biometric phone/laptop based solutions are better since it’s one tap for a familiar prompt.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am painfully aware of my mothers limitations with respect to technology and gadgets, as well as her extensive peer group who I somehow get roped into supporting. Your condescension is noted.

I don't have a keyring or a car key anymore so any additional physical object to carry is less convenient.

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