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Comment by Mistletoe | Hacker News Reader

We already know how to prevent it, it’s called anabolic steroids or testosterone. Once I read a study that showed sedentary people on testosterone gained more muscle mass than people actually working out.

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Bhasin et. al 2001. If you get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, it's an important part of your repertoire :-)

If you don't get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, testosterone can fix that too.

This is me. I cycle on and off testosterone (100mg/w for 12 weeks typically) and combine it with light exercise (20-30min of lifting 3x a week). Other than that my only exercise is walks with my dog (typically ~45min). The rest of the time (~12hrs/day+) I'm at my desk. When I'm on testosterone it I definitely see major results, just from that level of exercise.

My perspective on it is it is borrowing from the future. I feel better while on it, but it's just changing what the problem is. I've turned a sedentary lifestyle issue into a hormone issue. There are side effects (ie enlarged heart in the future). I'm using it as a crutch while I have a demanding job that keeps me working for longer hours.

FWIW the research does not show enlarged heart or many of the other negative side effects for people taking TRT at therapeutic, physiological doses (like, your 100mg/week is not supraphysiological for many men with low T). (And if you aren't low T, why take exogenous T? Especially given your concerns about borrowing from the future.) The heart issues and other bad side effects happens when bodybuilders take 200-5000 mg/wk doses.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of major results do you see? Reduced fat percentage? Faster muscle gain?

Why do take T in this manner?

Won't it cause your hormones/sperm/hairline to get messed up?

Testosterone is a very broad spectrum way to mess with your whole body.

Much better to do something targeted like reduce myostatin.

You probably know this, but -- while the myostatin area is an interesting subject for research and drug development -- unlike testosterone, therapies are not commercially available (yet).

Those are really unpleasant and dangerous to take and basically not an option for half the population though

TRT isn't unpleasant or dangerous to take at all though from any research I've seen. It's sitting in the low testosterone epidemic we have found ourselves in that has health risks and makes you feel very unpleasant indeed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t...

My first thought is the study must be capturing what they call “newbie gains” or “diminishing returns”. The sedentary experimental group can gain muscle so fast because they are just starting out on their journey.

Also, it kind of reminds me of the idea that athletes take these as performance enhancing drugs because it helps them in the same way that following a strength-training program would help them.

It isn't just beginner gains. Testosterone and anabolics are really, really effective. (They also have horrible side effects.)

They'll also tear their ligaments and tendons when they go to use that muscle mass...

Shouldn't that be obvious? A lot of untrained men are stronger than a lot of trained women, the deciding difference being their natural testosterone levels, presumably.

Yes that’s how you get an enlarged heart and die by 35.

I take it you're talking about people like Dallas McCarver, whose autopsy found his testosterone levels to be extremely elevated [0] because of the number and volume of substances he was taking. If you're just taking base TRT and actually do cardio alongside weightlifting, you'll probably be fine.

[0] https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver...

Fundamentally the heart is a muscle and anabolic steroids and test stimulate muscle growth in muscles at a cellular level. There’s no way to have one and not the other.

That’s just the tip though. They have all kinds of far reaching effects ranging from curtailing height, significantly reducing IQ, constant skin breakouts, altered moods, hair loss, severe anxiety, paranoia, kidney and liver failure, bone breakages etc, severe and permanent decrease in the testosterone you naturally produce etc.

Great-grandparent comment is talking about supraphysiological doses of test and anabolics, not replacement-level T (TRT). I agree that physiological dose TRT in people with otherwise-low T is safe.

Even more importantly, test causes hair loss.

Sort of. Some fraction of test (natural or exogenous) converts to DHT via 5α-reductase, and some people (not everyone) have DHT-sensitive hair loss.

You may be being facetious but if you’re not I would take hair loss over death any day.

It truly is a wonder therapy with no known side effects. I pair it with Ozempic! /s.

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