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Comment by prmoustache | Hacker News Reader

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I didn't like this number either, but it's more mainstream than you think. For example, from last year: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo.... This is an opinion article citing a contemporary Pew Research study that appears to support the 60% number, although it's stated as "63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single" (emphasis mine).

I don't think you needed to imply that someone was an incel.

Out of those under 30, I bet there is a huge differebmnce between those between 20-24 and 25-29. It is no secret that women tend to seek people who are slightly older. A few decades earlier, a 20-22y old guys would just date 16-18y old girls and that wouln't be frowned upon nor put them at risk of going to jail.

Naively, you'd think that if demographics break down 50/50 between the sexes, then 60% of men being single means 60% of women are single too. But that's not the case; the article says men in their 20s are single at twice the rate of women in their 20s.

I agree that part of that ~30% difference could be women dating older men. But it could also be women dating each other: this[0] Gallup poll from 2023 found that 27% of Gen Z women identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual. Gen Z as noted here doesn't perfectly overlap with people in their 20s, but it seems like this could be another (better?) explanation.

[0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.asp...

If you’re asking how they can’t get a relationship, you may wish to look up the original definition and meaning of “incel” before it became derogatory slang for a certain type of misogynist.

>where do you get that number?

These aren't novel numbers:

https://aibm.org/commentary/gen-zs-romance-gap-why-nearly-ha...

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/reimagining-teenage-ro...

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...

The lonliness epidemic did not just stop at platonic relationships.

>What is your definition of "young men"?

I just use "Gen Z" as a moniker, so anyone from 1995 or 96 to 2010.

>how so?

Feel free to read the links, but various factors include

- less physical interaction in lieu of social media, even among school mates

- The consolidation of the dating scene to apps, which has their own story of dark patterns

- Women are still more likely to "date up", so there's less women in the same poll as younger men

- Some are simply sexually satisfied by porn and aren't really trying to actively date due to the above factors

- higher senses of anxiety from approaching compared to older generations

- Finances. no money, harder to make a good first impression. So some don't try

It's a multi-faceted issue.

Note that part of your factors (1, 2, 4, 6) you mention don't fall in the "can't" category but more in the "don't care / don't even try" category.

> where do you get that number?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34954694

I'm not going to waste my time educating you on this because I can tell from the way you jumped immediately to the incel label that you're just going to deny deflect and diffuse.

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