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Comment by snehk | Hacker News Reader

> [...] so customers who got screwed need to sue and win individually for the same issue which is favorable for the companies doing the screwing as without the precedent of common law

This is factually false.

> (some) Rental agreements, internet, telco and gym memberships are my favorite infamous examples. They're almost universally regarded as anti-consumer, with tonnes of sketchy clauses, but German lawmakers do nothing to improve that for the consumer.

Any examples here? The fact that contracts like these, if you forgot to cancel them, can only renew for one month is better than anything I've seen anywhere else. Also that you must be able to cancel anything online with the click of a button if the contract was made online. Add that to the fact that any clause is worthless if it includes something a reasonable person wouldn't expect. I don't know many countries that actually enforce this - Germany does all the time.

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>Add that to the fact that any clause is worthless if it includes something a reasonable person wouldn't expect.

The problem is you always need to sue to get justice for that which means paying for lawyers and consuming time and money plus stress.

That's true in probably every jurisdiction, though? At least in Germany you can often get free legal advice for many things (Verbraucherschutz, Mietrechtsberatung etc.) and there's insurance you can buy that covers your legal fees in case you lose. And legal fees in Germany are typically not exorbitant.

(Also in some cases, it's the other way around. If your landlord wants to increase the rent it's on them to sue you if they have a valid case.)

Legal advice and reality in Germany are 2 different things. The truth is that dealing with any kind of legal situation in Germany is a huge headache and all you get in the end is to prove you are right and get what should be yours anyway, without any additional compensation for your trouble. And many companies use this to abuse the system. The landlord can steal a small part of your deposit, you can only sue. But nobody's going to go through this hell for, say, €100, so the landlord gets to keep €100. Of course you can sue, but it will cost you a lot more than 100€ (even with insurance there is usually a deductible of 300€+) and it will take at least a year. And pretty much everything works this way.

If you win the case, the landlord would have to cover your legal fees.

In theory. But if the landlord is hiding (or, more accurately, if the bailiffs don't do their job), you end up paying for everything. But good news! The court order is valid for 30 years, so you might get it all back in the end (probably not).

> The fact that contracts like these, if you forgot to cancel them, can only renew for one month is better than anything I've seen anywhere else.

Do you have a source for this? (maybe it's a new thing) Because the subject of cancelling contracts is even a meme in the German (expat) community

(of course for your standard German you need to be able to plan your life years ahead)

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/vertraege-reklamat...

Initial contract terms can be longer (up to 24 months) and as the site points out, the new rules only apply to new contracts, others can be up to annual.

Thanks for the link, and as I suspected, it is a very recent thing

> Regulations for fairer consumer contracts are on the 1. March 2022 came into force and ensure that you can terminate automatic contract renewals for contracts for regular goods deliveries and services (such as streaming services or magazine subscriptions) more quickly.

> In addition, the 1st was founded. July 2022 a termination button duty introduced to simplify termination processes.

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