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Comment by jghn | Hacker News Reader

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?", well ...

Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.

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> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.

It’s annoying because they could price it in up front. A restaurant bill looks like a utility bill these days with all of the line item charges, just include the damn fees in the price of food!

The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that this allows them to scale BOH pay with how busy the night is. That's similar to how tipping works for FOH staff, but at least in my state BOH staff are not allowed to share in any tip pool.

Are they changing the percentage day to day? If not, it scales the same as higher food prices...

It'll be like cell phone bills, in particular the post-paid variety. I have a line that is using Consumer Cellular, and the plan is ostensibly $20/month. The actual bill is $28.02. Insanity.

> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.

I am 100% opposed to this. It's manipulative at best. The right way to do it is to pay the staff more and increase the prices. At least that would be upfront and respectable.

> More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?"

Assuming the service charge was even 15%, for it to be $100 more than you thought it would be, your bill would be $600+ (simplifying for taxes)...

I don't go out for $600 dinners that often, though I have.

And that being said, I do think tipping does bring out some less sensical practices - why should the server get five times more for serving me a single bottle of wine if the wine was $100, versus $20? It was still a single bottle of wine.

To be fair, by "more than once" I meant 2-3 times, not a regular occurrence. :)

The last time it happened was ~300 + 20% service charge + a tip that'd have been in the low-mid 20's. That works out to be a bit under $100. It started to bug me on the walk home, and I double checked the receipt. I don't like scrutinizing receipts but I've started to do it a bit more.

> why should the server get five times more for serving me a single bottle of wine if the wine was $100, versus $20? It was still a single bottle of wine.

The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that the kind of place where one is buying a $100 bottle of wine has a higher degree of training, care, etc involved.

> The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that the kind of place where one is buying a $100 bottle of wine has a higher degree of training, care, etc involved.

What if the restaurant serves both $20 and $100 bottles? Do they adjust the quality of service on the fly to make pouring the $20 bottle profitable? Offer extra labor-intensive services only available with the purchase of the $100 bottle?

The margins on 100$ bottles are already pretty amazing. No need for extra revenue there

Geeze, $100 more? So like your $400 dinner was $500 instead?

It isn't unrealistic unfortunately. It's not unusual for a few people to rack up $300, especially with drinks involved. Many states (e.g. Texas) have sales tax, so already +8.25%. Add on an 18% automatic gratuity, then tip another 15% unknowingly and you're paying $440 for your $300 worth of food...

What I don't get is why restaurants don't just raise their prices. It's quite disrespectful to customers to advertise one price and charge them for another at the last second. It's Ticketmaster scumbaggery. Do we really want more of that?

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