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Comment by samd | Hacker News Reader

Good riddance. There is nothing essential to the role managers fill that couldn't be done by someone without authority over you. That doesn't necessarily mean removing all managers, it just means not making them your boss.

Valve is proof that a flat structure can not just work, but lead to massive financial, critical, and popular success. It's also probably one of the only companies that I would be fulfilled working at that wasn't my own. There's no one to hold you back. I think the startup-minded hackers on this site can relate to that.

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> There is nothing essential to the role managers fill that couldn't be done by someone without authority over you.

Bosses can break ties without anybody being too pissed off that their pet idea lost the contest. Bosses can see the approaching ravine and order peolle to build a bridge before the rest of the team gets there.

Valve is a poor example. Mr. Market only cares that their products are fun or interesting. Valve products don't have to conform to MIL-STD-2341 section 243 subsection 12, and be validated according to ANSI 228.3.

Why is there a contest? If someone has an idea let them branch the code and implement it. The company can then decide which of the two branches to use and the developers will work harder to win. The real problem is this system is not compatible with the jobs of non-engineering managers. What are they supposed to do in a free market system where developers are making decisions? For their jobs to be viable, an authoritarian system has to be set up. One developer has to be told 'don't do that, we're going with Bob's way.' That's not an environment for innovation. All this accomplishes is now a highly paid developer has no reason to work hard at all, and they sure as hell don't give a shit about Bob's stupid ideas.

As for bosses building a bridge, its ALWAYS going to be "why the hell didn't you engineers know about or implement MIL-STD-2341" not "here's your MIL-STD-2341 reference books and a few contacts for you to get started."

> If someone has an idea let them branch the code and implement it.

Branch the code and implement it? What if idea #1 is to add CRM and idea #2 is add interactive business scenario projection?

Many ideas are too big to implement just for the hell of it. And voting for it is no good, because most of the voters have no idea what the hell they are voting for. Somebody has to take responsibility for doing the deep analysis and making the decision. That's called management.

Unfortunately, my experience is more that the upper level bosses tell people to build a bridge and by the time it gets down to the floor the orders are quite different.

If Valve is a poor example, what about WL Gore with their 9000 employees and $3 billion in annual revenue?

Valve products have to meet all kinds of legal requirements and pass console certification. And Steam has to not lose your payment info.

and they've been successful thus far compared to Sony who probably have boatloads of traditional managers

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