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Some of my best ideas come during little stretch breaks, or while I'm pacing in front of my window waiting for water to boil for tea.

Agreed, and many of mine do when I'm out with the dog or on the toilet. The thing is that those are unscripted. The point that I think the OP was making was that enforced breaks on a schedule will immediately kill any form of concentration or workflow

Absolutely, it's the regimented and very frequent schedule that is the problem. Breaks are necessary, and very useful - but if that frequency is what I have to do to stay healthy with a desk job, then I guess I'll be unhealthy

Basically - movement isn't free

What works for me is that I only have a small glass of water or a coffee at my table. If I want to drink more, I have to get up and walk over to the kitchen. Early in the day this can be about about every 20-30 minutes, later it goes down to maybe 45-60 minutes. Then there are, of course, rest room breaks. So I'd say I get up and move 10-12 times a day in an unforced, natural way -- not always 8 minutes, mind, but it's about progress, not perfection.

> but if that frequency is what I have to do to stay healthy with a desk job, then I guess I'll be unhealthy

That's an interesting lifestyle choice, but don't be shocked if others refuse to follow along.

You can keep working with your (aka thinking) head while moving around. Sometimes change or setting can give birth to now ideas or approaches.

Not necessarily. I can sometimes take my problem with me and sometimes that's even the best thing to do, but not always and certainly not every 20 minutes. If you're in a typical office environment it's a complete non-starter as someone at the water cooler will smash your flow into tiny pieces.

Ok, but you don't need to do "every 20 minutes" every 20 minutes. Even trending your life in that direction is better than doing nothing about it. Surely there are times in your life where you find yourself immobile, where you don't really need to be immobile.

It’s not that hard to walk with headphones on and pretend you’re in a call.

> someone at the water cooler will smash your flow into tiny pieces.

Sounds like an argument against rto to me...

Your concentration breaks if you stand up?

Try not to involve your legs in any thought process. With enough training you should be able to take your concentration into the kitchen, the bathroom, the shower, etc.

> Break my concentration EVERY 20-30 minutes to move around for at least 2 minutes? That's at least halving my productivity.

I approximately never need to focus to the level that standing up and pacing a bit would evict state, let alone need to focus like that for for over a half hour at a time.

And I think if I was focusing like that, I'd probably just forget to take a break.

Time for HN = time to move a little. Done.

Heck, just make the rule, "no bullshit web browsing on work computer, only on phone when walking around".

    > That's at least halving my productivity.

That is bold claim, and I struggle to believe it. Are you writing from the perspective of "flow"? In my experience, the people who talk the most about "flow", are the ones who are trying to avoid communicating with teammates / managers.

We're trying to avoid communication with teammates and managers because it breaks flow. All the engineers on my team understand this, generally send me chat messages to kick off a convo, and do not expect instant replies. I offer them the same courtesy. Re-establishing context after an interruption takes a tremendous amount of energy.

Now, admittedly, standing up for a stretch does not break my flow. Neither does walking around my house or doing the dishes. Generally it's talking to another human that'll do it every time. Light exercise should be more than possible to work into your day once it becomes familiar and routine.

it's because when you get up for a walk, or wash the dishes, you use different parts of your brain. it's the same as knitting (i.e for an experienced knitter, not a beginner) while watching TV. talking to another person, especially about work related issues, pushes the previous stuff onto a very short stack, and the stack overflows immediately. often times it's not about trying to get the stuff back in mind as it was before, but having to go through the entire series of steps again to get there.

in my experience, the people complaining about others not communicating enough are insecure extroverts that just can't stand the sound of their own thoughts and just need constant approval from others in the form of attention.

schedule a meeting once a week and we'll catch up. if you're stuck, send me an email and I'll get back to you when it won't interrupt my own work.

you could go full Stephen:

https://content.wolfram.com/sites/43/2019/02/05-treadmill-r2...

https://content.wolfram.com/sites/43/2019/02/07-popcorn-rig1...

I have yet to buy one, but a walking pad under my height-adjustable table should allow me to do all those thing at the same spot while I keep working.

That is the optimum frequency — if you just wanna reap in the health benefits it could look like:

    0 min: start working
    
    10 min: refactored a few things, get a glas of water, look out of the window
    
    40 min: started working on a particular though problem, somewhat stuck, get up and stretch a little while thinking
    
    60 min: found a good solution to though problem, keep it in your head, goto kitchen get another glas of water
    
    120 min: after an hour of uninterrupted flow the though problem is solved, stand up, get a cup of tea, think about whether it is really adequately solved
    
    etc.

Every twenty minutes makes it sound as if you are a slave to the clock and interrupt the flow just whenever — but if you want to make this work you just have to find the spots where standing up feels natural and do it. Those don't have to be exactly 20 minutes apart. Even just standing up once is already better than staying put for hours.

I program myself and found a change of perspective and bodily motion in the right spots can help concentration, not break it, especially in the long run. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you have a variable height desk, you can also alternate between sitting and standing, which can also help as you now have at least two different resting poses with slightly different kinds of strain.

If you work from home you can spread monitors out, so you switch positions while working on a problem without losing focus the same way you switch back and forth on a dual monitor setup. E.g. Have documentation on monitor one at a standup station in one corner of the room, the other monitor with code a few feet away at a desk, email on a laptop in a separate room, etc...

And drinking more coffee helps a lot. You have to get up to make the coffee, then to pee it out. The caffiene in sufficuent quantity makes it hard to sit still. You talk faster so people think you're more productive too.

>found a good solution to though problem

> -keep it in your head,

+write it down

Some 30 years ago we integrated that by simply putting the laser printer in the opposite corner of the room. Nowadays it's fan or A/C remote, coffee machine, fridge, charger, 2nd mobile phone, etc., placed across the room or office...

I do this by drinking a lot. That way nature takes care of the pauses, I _need_ to get up unless I wear a diaper :D

> Break my concentration EVERY 20-30 minutes to move around for at least 2 minutes?

It will be a break just because it needs a conscious effort. But presumably if you build a routine, a habit, it will work by itself. You will be able to continue thinking your deep thoughts, while your body will transpose itself to a treadmill, do some movements there and then transpose itself back.

The tricky part is how to build an automatic routine and how to trigger it every 20 minutes without breaking the concentration.

Maybe an automatic height adjustable table could work?

Many desks have bluetooth these days and someone already built something like that: https://apps.apple.com/de/app/desk-remote-control/id15090377...

Ok, two questions: 1) can it be programmed to regularly change the height without user intervention? 2) what are the user experiences of using it this way?

So you're saying your health is not your number 1 priority? Interesting that you think everyone else is paying lip service to this basic way to take care of your body.

20-30 minutes is a bit much, but I think getting up every 45 minutes (get a glass of water/cup of tea, go to the bathroom, look out of the window) is reasonable.

Use a treadmill.

Other comments & suggestions aside - remember that the majority of humans employed to sit and work on computers are not programmers.

There is no need to break your concentration.

Whenever I do not type at the keyboard, but I think about what I should do, I stand up and walk around.

I actually think much better about the problem that I have to solve while walking than when sitting.

Only being able to concentrate while sedentary is a habit not a rule of nature.

Like many people throughout time I do much of my best thinking while walking or exercising. To the point that to crack a hard problem is often easiest if I get up and go for a stroll.

This is even easier given that there is seldom only one problem to crack. The combination of switching tasks and moving about, getting the blood pumping, seeing new things, and breaking pattern is an incredibly reliable way to generate good ideas, solutions and approaches.

It's not the focus, it's that usually I need to read/explore some documentation while I am concentrated, that forces to be sitting (or not moving)

Agree like you said. It's pretty evident, all the management at the company I work at said that meetings interleaved with 1 hour blocks is a productivity killer, 2 hour blocks are required for some deep work. Interrupting every 20-30 minutes is terrible