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Comment by dale_glass | Hacker News Reader

I think one understated problem Grim Fandango had is that it's too adult.

Today "adult" often means "there's sex and/or gore", but the content is still simple and juvenile. But Grim Fandango isn't like that, it's just full of themes that probably confused the heck out of almost every kid that tried to play it.

Like the very first chapter throws you right into office politics. You deal with stealing a job from another salesman, sabotage a pneumatic tube messaging system, and sneak into your boss' office.

It all makes perfect sense for adults familiar with office work and all the movies it references. But I recall I tried it when I was maybe 14 and I couldn't make head nor tails of it. I didn't even realize the pneumatic tubes were actually a thing.

Things like Monkey Island and even Full Throttle are far more accessible.

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Here's the thing - I remember playing it as a kid and so many things, arguably most of it, went way over my head: the whole travel agent thing and getting ahead in the office, dia de los muertos, the references to noir, the weird but gorgeous mexican art deco combo, I knew nothing about any of it. But I still loved every second of it. It made the world feel very rich and real even if I didn't fully get it, in a way that other games around the time just were not.

Also this is not too dissimilar to how adult life that surrounds every child is to a child. You're sort of used to living in a world that has workings beyond your comprehension and just going along with it. I didn't get what exactly was going on but I did understand /something/ was.

I'm listening to a review of The Great Mouse Detective (1986) which has a similar ethos, as did other content targeting young people from that era. Also I recall picking up books as a kid that were certainly not meant for children and adults back then didn't even blink, and I think it stoked my curiosity and interests and pushed the boundaries of my understanding, as well as prepared me for growing up. I don't think I ended up being a worse person or being traumatized in any way. Part of me wonders if kids' content being much more sanitized these days is a mistake.

I also played it as a kid and vividly remember that plot about a secret political revolution feeling so cool and new to me. I had never encountered anything like it before.I remember 'Viva la revolución!' becoming a catchphrase for me and a friend at that time.

The sense of sneaking into an adult world, even a fantasy one, might be what made the game feel so special to me.

> The sense of sneaking into an adult world, even a fantasy one, might be what made the game feel so special to me

Brilliant observation that never occurred to me. Around that age being allowed to sit with and listen in on adults having normal adult conversations - being one of them - felt special.

You are correct! The user above you has a strange opinion about what media kids should consume.

I think that was part of the fascination of PC:s as a kid. Police Quest or Civilization and so on. It was this kind of adult world that you knew little of and were exploring on your own, or with your friends. The games were not holding your hand. It often was game over. But you could try again. Also, your parents were never involved in any way (except financing the thing). The audience of PC games was different than console games. They expected more from the player. Sometimes it was frustrating, but often times I think one learned something. Also one had to use the dictionary sometimes. There were also less other things competing for their attention so kids had more persistence...

This is bang on. Having a pc back in the day was like having a problem solving simulator for me.

Same experience here. I loved The Great Mouse Detective, at age 8. Not much later I read The Dark Knight in a translated trade paperback, and it really tickled my little mind. There was a trend of having comic adaptations of movies back then, so I also read and loved the License to Kill comic and was disappointed when Terminator 2 omitted some scenes in the movie -- until the Director's Cut came out.

I was certainly not traumatized (apart from the week of nightmares after seeing Alien one night on TV at age 12). Because of this, I had no arguments when I learned my 11 and 13 year old kids' mom and their stepdad had secured tickets for us to go see Deadpool & Wolverine when I was visiting last time.

Kids understand more than one may think, depending on how much "real life" they assimilate through culture (and parental guidance), I believe.

> I'm listening to a review of The Great Mouse Detective (1986) which has a similar ethos, as did other content targeting young people from that era.

You bring up a great point, I do feel sometimes that children media in the 80s didn't completely try to dumb down complexities of adult life even when targeting children. While there are exceptions, it does feel less true nowadays when looking at modern media. The problem I feel is that at the same time as we sanitize children' content more than we used too, children have more access to unfiltered content through often poorly secured devices.

As for Grim Fandango, I played it around 15 and while, yes there were elements that flew above my head. I still remember it as an amazing experience and my first introduction to the film noir genre (shortly after that was reinforced by playing Under a Killing Moon given to me by a friend of mine)

Yes, we do a grave disservice to all children when we assume they can't handle reality.

> Today "adult" often means "there's sex and/or gore", but the content is still simple and juvenile.

That's indeed an unfortunate fact. In fact, most "adult" stuff is actually for teens or young adults. Teens love sex and gore, they want to be edgy, they want to prove they are not children anymore. Actual adults, the kind with jobs and families, are usually passed that. They may still enjoy their sex and gore, but it is just one theme like another.

I think a good way to make a difference between "teen adult" and "actual adult" is to look at the age and environment of the protagonists. Is the main character a teenager or young adult? Does it involve a school of some kind? Then it is probably for teens. Is the main character middle aged? Does it involve work, especially office work? Are there parents among the protagonists? Then it is probably for adults. Sex and violence are secondary.

Look, that is also a twisted perspective.

"Adult" = "involving maturity". It is not the topic, it is how it is processed - with developed vs juvenile abilities.

And "adult" is not a janus word, representing both the mature trait and its lack thereof: the second is just given by severe misunderstandings of maturity because of deficiency or twisted incentive. The same works for other words, such as "art".

That's a really interesting perspective. I grew up around when adventure games were popular, and I learned a lot about the grown-up world (and in fact, American world) through adventure games.

Sam and Max had so much Americana that, playing as a non-American, got me into the deep cuts of American culture. I think a lot of it was contextual. I didn't get all the references at first (e.g. who's John Muir for instance), but the context made it possible for me to figure it out.

I got completely stuck in the Beavis and Butthead adventure game when one of the voice acted characters told me to get a "vee-hickul". As a teenager sitting at my family PC in London, I had no idea what the hell the Texan (?) was saying. Only several years later would I figure it out.

The only other thing I remember from that game is the hock-a-loogie minigame, which I mastered. I wonder if my parents had any idea what I was up to on the computer?

Anecdote: the word ‘vehicle’ is referenced aty day job a lot. I had a PM who always, always said ‘vee-hickle’ and I honestly always thought he was full of shit.

On day when he was really mad about $(thing I predicted) he just comes out and says ‘vehicle’ like it’s spelled.

I don’t remember feeling smug or annoyed, mostly just kind of bummed at the farce.

> he just comes out and says ‘vehicle’ like it’s spelled

What do you mean by this?

In what what is "ve hicle" not pronouncing it as it's spelled but "ve icle" is? Isn't the one including an h more faithful?

I'm a non-native speaker I remember I couldn't figure out how to pronounce "vehicle" just from how it's spelled. It's not like I pronounced it wrong (as is often the case with other words), I just couldn't figure out how to pronounce it at all until I looked it up.

Edit: I guess my point is that "as it's spelled" may be non obvious in case of vehicle.

That's partially my point too: pronouncing something "as it's spelled" is meaningless in English - most of the time there's more than one "obvious" pronunciation. And the right one could be a less obvious one.

> the right one

One of the many right ones.

I insist on calling Roblox “rob-l-ox” when talking to my kids. It’s a dumb joke, but it also emphasises to them that spelling is a guide and not always a useful one.

I meant he pronounced it two different ways when he was too angry to fake it. Was that not apparent in the post, or were you just being a prick?

I learned "vee-hickle" from the TV show M.A.S.H

Are you aware that both pronunciations are correct?

'Cause boy are you going to be surprised when you find out about "accents".

It wasn’t the annunciation, It was the em-phasis.

My point stands.

Reading your comment I had no memory of ever playing that game, until I remembered mastering the hock-a-loogie minigame. Thanks (I guess?) for the memory!

> As a teenager sitting at my family PC in London, I had no idea what the hell the Texan (?) was saying. Only several years later would I figure it out.

I recommend King of the Hill for more of that. The show aged well, very thick americana that is genuinely funny and somewhat insightful. The more “adult” I became, the more hilarious and somewhat “deep” I started finding all their slice of life premises.

There is even one character who speaks so fast and with such thick texan accent (Boomhauer), it is almost impossible to understand him half the time.

One interestint part about it, the show was created and written by Mike Judge, who (among a few other legendary shows) also did Silicon Valley (from mid 2010s).

Day of the Tentacle is also very American, in both style and content. I'm glad I didn't play it as a child because I wouldn't have understood or appreciated it, even though I knew it existed and I played Maniac Mansion. Day of the Tentacle was completely different than what I imagined and much better.

DOTT was great and yes also lots of American references like the George Washington story and the Pony Express.

But in Asia we were immersed enough in American culture through books and Saturday morning cartoons that it didn’t feel that foreign.

This is a great assessment that I never realized until you said it. There are so many games from that era that I played that fit that mold. I was playing Leisure Suit Larry as a 10 year old! I can’t imagine parents these days letting their kids play that at all!

My parents couldn't understand enough English to really get why I shouldn't be playing Larry (almost all the screens are just fine) and I was too young to understand the actual theme. Perfect combination...

Kind of like Police Quest 1 too. Although it did teach me to type "use handcuffs" fast enough. Also the spelling of "briefcase" and other longer words.

Police quest was just way too tough for the foreigner unused to American procedures. "Administer sobriety test" is not the easiest of commands without a very broad vocabulary.

I don't know. My friends and I growing up in Asia played Police Quest I as 8 year olds.

We learned about the Miranda rights, and the PR-24 nightstick. I remember the sobriety test part. We didn't know what a "field sobriety test" was exactly, but we knew it was something to do with drunk drivers. Somehow we managed to finish the game.

I think most people can pick up a lot of clues from context alone.

You finished it as an 8yo? Congrats! It's a serious achievement.

In many cases lazy "single mothers" let kids use TicTok and SnapChat in lieu of a baby sitter or actually spending time with their own children these days.

The things my kids have seen and knew before 6 years old was 1,000 times worse than anything in Leisure Suit Larry. Our daughter was repeating racial and sexual slurs she learned in the cheap "after-school" shes forced to attend.

American parents or society doesn't care about their kids at all in general (did we ever?) and growing up in this broken society is far more mentally damaging for kids than 20-30 years ago.

"Lazy single moms". Nice.

Why is "single mothers" in quotes? I'm also confused because you generalize against single mothers for being lazy but then describe how your own parenting style is failing to meet your child's needs.

I'm about the same age but personally I had the opposite experience. For me it was refreshing to play something more mature, more 'intellectual', even if I'm sure a lot of the jokes washed over me.

I agree about the accessibility, but Full Throttle is by far my least favorite lucasarts graphical adventure. It's really quite depressing and I deeply dislike the main character.

Maybe it needed a Leisure Suit Larry style age verification:

  All politicians are
  a. hardworking.
  b. honest.
  c. ethical.
  d. on the public payroll.
  Correct answer: d.

  "Gone With The Wind" is about
  a. outer space.
  b. a bank robbery.
  c. four hours long.
  d. dust.
  Correct answer: c.

  Two bits is
  a. all it takes to consume a "Big Mac."
  b. computer talk.
  c. about a dollar.
  d. the former cost for a shave and a haircut.
  Correct answer: d.

https://allowe.com/games/larry/tips-manuals/lsl1-age-quiz.ht...

Agree that it adult stuff in it but loved that as a kid. I always hated 'kid' content, it felt fake.

I thought this game was up there in my favorites as a kid, don't think me or my younger sibling noticed personally, but the puzzles were really hard for sure. Either way we beat it between each other taking turns I remember. Oh yeah, the tank controls were a little less shit with a gamepad - back when there was a dedicated port for those no less

I also remember these games easier to beat before the internet was so pervasive and these kinds of things were the best way to pass rainy days, we'd draw out notes and maps on paper and all sorts of stuff to beat them - different times now, people's attention is way more scattered

We also had fewer games available. I did play a lot of demos and shareware though, thanks to disks from gaming magazines, including GF.

I punted on it almost immediately because I hated the controls.

And most of all, the classic movie Casablanca. I played Grim Fandango as a 15 year old kid and I when I eventually saw Casablanca many years later it was like, this feels familiar, why… oh wait!

That said, like others here as a kid I loved the adult culture references even when I didn’t fully get all of them.

The tank controls also put me off of it for years.

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