Sincerely, someone forced into a "normal" schedule by kids school start times and, well, everything else too, I suppose.
Kids would definitely screw up this aspect of my lifestyle lol. But kids give you immortality, and here I am just wondering if I'm gaining or losing a couple years.
I got fired from several jobs because of it. My folks weren't understanding so I genuinely believed that I was willingly staying up and well... Needless to say I have no professional network and most of my friends thought I was a massive flake and those connections fell apart, too. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Even diagnosed with insomnia I still feel massive guilt about not being able to sleep like a normal person. I just ruin everyone's plans around me. If I need to be up I have to hope my medication works (when employed) and if it does I need an hour to wake up enough to feel safe doing anything major like cooking or driving.
Sorry for the ramble. Appropriately I've been up for like 34 hours and am hoping these OTC meds kick in.
Hope y'all have a great weekend.
Just a piece of unsolicited advice: I learned to make a virtue out of it. I'm a solo software dev and I have to maintain big pieces of code that run 24/7. Well, my virtue is that I've been available 24/7 to my clients for the last 20 years. And one of the results of that has been that they've never abandoned me and gone to larger companies to deal with software issues. My own schedule is so variable, it doesn't really matter if I'm asleep or awake or what time zone they're in; if it's not urgent, it goes into my inbox, but if it's urgent, I usually answer the phone immediately. Part of this has been adding layers of support forms so I don't have to wake up to every phone call. But the people who have my cell number get through right away.
The result of that is that I basically get paid $300 every time I have to wake up, which is soul-soothing enough to prevent me from being angry. And the rest of the time I can sleep whenever I feel like it.
Being on a 32:12 hour cycle could have massive rewards. Clients are extremely appreciative, especially if you break your sleep for something important. Like, don't be afraid to tell your clients about your sleep cycle. Getting through admitting that was probably the biggest breakthrough of my career. My girlfriend loves that I'm still up working and make her breakfast at 4am when she's headed for work some days, or make her dinner when she comes home at night others. It's always a surprise, I tell her. You just have to find people who appreciate the energy you bring.
Yes, the "straight world" of people with 9-5 jobs and kids absolutely abhors this lifestyle and thinks it's irresponsible and flakey. But then again, they don't get paid $300 for waking up in the middle of the day ;) My friends (and girlfriends) are lyft drivers, waiters, coders, night shift workers, and other people who spurn daylight society. We are legion.
Maybe that is what this study is capturing.
I can't imagine subjecting anyone to disturbances while sleeping.
Unfortunately, while I'm medicated I can't help sleeping through alarms so my last partner refused to cohabitate at night. I understood but it didn't help things.
I use the term inverted to describe my circadian rhythm but people who don't see me physically suffer from being awake for days don't get it. My folks think I'm making it up and my friends get it but also don't.
I have no idea what CBN is. Not intentionally tried the magnesium but I can keep an eye out. I'm between jobs so I can't really afford to get up and buy things too often but I'll add it to my list to look for.
CBN is a federally legal cannabinoid that is reportedly pretty good for sleep, not causing intoxication or interfering with REM like THC does.
I have not tried it, although I do regularly use THC (also not good for the brain) for sleep that, along with a meal, reliably gets me asleep very quickly, although unfortunately without noticeable dreams and with a distinct laziness in the morning, but with these negatives somewhat mitigated when magnesium l-threonate is added.
https://harborcityhemp.com/product/ultra-potency-cbn-tinctur...
Wikipedia [0] criticises these experiments and says they didn't account for electric light, which apparently lengthens the cycle. So to rephrase, people with any access whatsoever to electric light favour a 25-26 hour day. You're still totally normal, but it explains you may have better outcomes with annoying interventions like "no artificial light in the last few hours of the evening".
Soon, all night time electric lighting seemed batshit crazy. Dozens of times too bright. Of course we all can’t fucking sleep. It’s so wildly much brighter than necessary.
I gave it up after a few weeks because it’s pretty much impossible to keep up if you’re ever around other people in the evening (and I have a family, so…) and they’re not entirely on-board, or just need to get stuff done at night because life is busy (again: I have a family) and everything about modern scheduling and activities assumes you can do things for hours after sun-down.
But, the experience did convince me that 95% of “night owls” and serious trouble sleeping are just the obvious and natural consequence of crazy-bright nighttime lighting and hyper-stimulating electronic home entertainment (which all also emits light, so I was shunning that stuff after dark too during my experiment). We have a sleeplessness epidemic? Gee I wonder if it’s because we light up our houses like a carnival and then put a world’s fair x100 at our finger tips. Like, yes, of course it’s that.
I’ve since discovered that low-dose weed gummies also get the job done with no side effects (aside from allowing me an hour or so of giggly TV watching right before bed, if I want it—oh no, what a tragedy), for me, and are far more compatible with modern life. Kinda lame to have to medicate my way out of the human body and mind of course not being able to cope with what we all do to them after dark, through.
I’ve used the analogy on here before, but imagine some 18th century emperor or king complained to his physician that he’d been lighting up his palace and grounds every night as bright possible and hosting a weeks-long 24/7 festival featuring the world’s finest entertainers (including the rather lewd sorts), intellectuals, travelers and philosophers, jesters and players, and, well, for some reason he’s having trouble falling asleep at a decent hour. LOL fucking yeah, dude, no wonder.
But we do that and then go “man I wonder if maybe I need a better pillow or to get more vitamin D” or whatever. Seriously?
I keep my lights very low in the hours before I go to bed, and use candles, and mostly read books rather than electronic devices. But one thing I'd point out is that - I live fairly far north. At this time of the year, there is very little direct sunlight at all. Whole days can be as dark as 6am, and the sun will be setting before 5pm soon. There is a balance, in the winter, when without bright electric light you could never really wake up. And sometimes it feels like living on a space station, because if you're a night owl that's the only light you get. I've had modestly good results from using a "happy lamp" during the darkest days. Just pointing out that - although I agree with you about clamping down on carnival lights at night - there is an opposite extreme which can cause people to go into a sort of seasonal hibernation.
To be fair, we're all like this. The average length of Circadian Cycle is closer to 25h than 24h when isolated: https://www.circadiansleepdisorders.org/info/cycle_length.ph...
Anyway if your schedule doesn’t impact you in a negative way then go for it
Unfortunately I really enjoy night time, so I regularly completely fail at that task. I can’t remember the last time I woke up feeling rested, and yet here I am on Hacker News at 1:48am. At least I can sleep in tomorrow.
In my adult life I have ranged between 5-6 cups a day when I used to go into the office and none at all during periods where I just fell out of the habit of making any.
lol. Same here. Keeping your digestive system on track with your sleep cycle deserves a whole separate discussion. For those of us who've discovered coffee and cigarettes, usually the sight of one or the other is enough to get ya goin'
People speak of teenagers having a different sleep cycle but I'm now suspecting that, rather than that you'd grow out of your body's schedule, it's just that you don't complain to your toddler and expect them to understand and shift your job of entertaining them to later in the day. Same story at work; also a factor most teenagers don't have in the same way. So you suck it up and fall into a new rhythm that kinda works too
1) No nighttime lighting brighter than a single-digit count of candles. No glowing screens after dark, either. Within a couple days I was no longer a “night owl”. Go figure, it was all fake, all those years.
2) A few mg of THC edible 90 minutes before I want to be asleep.
I’d tried prescription sleep aids in the past and did have issues with grogginess. Between that, needing timing to be pretty precise for the grogginess not to be even worse, and having to choose between “glass of wine” and “be able to sleep”, those had enough down-sides that it didn’t really work out (the “still feel shitty in the morning” bit was definitely the worst part)
As for your two points, they’re not super practical for me, at least not for a big chunk of the year. From now until about February it goes dark around 5pm, so that would effectively mean no lights, video games, movies/TV, or browsing on work days. And while weed will succeed in knocking me the hell out, it’s illegal for recreational use here, and very difficult to get a medical prescription, so it’s not something I have regular access to.
I'm the king of getting a second wind, but it's usually alcohol-driven. Curtailing food and booze about 3 hrs before sleep, watching a little Mentour Pilot or reading a book, I'll conk out before I planned to. Avoiding the second wind is a discussion in itself.
+1 for Mentour Pilot, love his videos
I used to have a schedule where I would start nodding off at 8PM and had to sleep, then wake up within 10 minutes of 4AM the next morning. My whole day was on such a routine, I never had to check the time. I could tell by temperature, sun, what I was doing, how I felt (hungry, tired) what time it was. I would be at my highest energy for the first hours after waking up. Then my energy would plunge during midday. Then it would build back up leading into the evening until I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore. Maybe 4 to 8PM I would be at good energy until I hit the abrupt cliff. I guess I was sort of a morning AND night person. I had to train my body to get on this schedule.