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Comment by mattfrommars | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone know if there is a way to use Mac without the Apple bloatware?

I genuinely want to use it as primary machine but with this Intel MacBook Pro I have, I absolutely dislike FaceTime, IMessage, the need to use AppStore, Apple always asking me have a Apple user name password (which I don't and have zero intention), block Siri, and all telemetry stuff Apple has backed in, stop the machine calling home, etc.

This is to mirror tools available in Windows to disable and remove Microsoft bloatware and ad tracing built in.

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There is zero iCloud account requirement. You do not need to use the App Store. Gatekeeper can be disabled with a configuration profile key. Telemetry (what little there is) can be disabled with a configuration profile key. Siri can be disabled, all of the generative AI crap can be disabled, yadda yadda yadda, with a configuration profile key. Every background service can be listed and disabled if you disable authenticated-root. Hell, you could disable `apsd` and disable all push notifications too, which require a phone home to Apple.

You don't need to use AppStore, unless of course you want to use apple software.

Pretty much all the software I use is from brew.

this ^^

IIRC Apple is a lot less heavy handed wrt service login requirements when compared to Microsoft’s most recent Windows endeavors. And depending on the developer you can get around having to use the App Store at all. Being you’re on an Intel Mac have you considered just using Linux ?

You can totally use it without ever signing in to Apple account. You cannot delete Siri etc, but you can disable parts of it and not use the rest.

There used to be this whole contingent of people who were adamant that Apple's software was too opinionated, bloated, that you couldn't adapt its OS to your needs, and that Apple was far too ingrained in your relationship with your device. That Linux was true freedom, but at least that Windows respected its users

Then Windows 11 came out.

I belong to that contingent, and I still stand by the assertion that Apple's software is too opinionated, configurability is unreasonably low, and you have to stick to the Apple ecosystem for many thing to get the most out of it.

My primary desktop & laptop are now both Macs because of all the malarkey in Win11. Reappearance of ads in Start and Windows Recall were the last straws. It's clear that Microsoft is actively trying to monetize Windows in ways that are inherently detrimental to UX.

I do have to say, though, that Win11 is still more customizable overall, even though it - amazingly! - regressed below macOS level in some respects (e.g. no vertical taskbar option anymore). Gaming is another major sticking point - the situation with non-casual games on macOS is dismal.

Happened a lot earlier than 11.

You can use OSX without an Apple account and paired with a 3rd party host based firewall (Little Snitch), the OS usually stays out of your way (imo). Bundled apps can be removed after disabling SIP (file integrity) but there are downsides/maintenance to that route.

Do you mean you want to use Apple Silicon without macOS?

If that's your question, yes - various options exist like https://asahilinux.org

At a linux conference I saw many macbooks. Talked to a few, they just ran linux in a VM full screen for programming and related. Then used OSX for everything else (office, outlook, teams, work enforced apps, etc). They seemed very happy and this encouraged them to not task switch as often.

I gave up on macos when they started making the OS partition read-only. A good security feature in general, but their implementation meant that changing anything became a big set of difficulties and trade-offs.

That, combined with the icloud and telemetry BS, I'd had enough.

Not only good security, but it also makes software updates a lot faster because you don't have to check if the user has randomly changed any system files before patching them.

You need to embrace Apple's vision, or use something else. Clearly your goals and Apple's are misaligned, so you will only feel pain when using a Mac.

Get a PC.

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