16GB base RAM, they finally did it.
They also did move the Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse to USB-C.
They also did move the Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse to USB-C.
> The Apple Mouse 2 also comes with a Quick Charge feature that provides nine hours of use with a two-minute charge.
https://www.jackery.com/blogs/knowledge/how-to-charge-apple-...
In the same way people miss meeting reminders ahead of the meeting and Google meet/calendar combo still fails to do a reminder at 0 minutes by default. It's a bad design that doesn't account for real behaviour.
Sure, and you might forget the mouse at home. Or the cord!
They can't solve every problem.
But this one. This one they certainly can.
That's fine. It's why we have choices.
Now if you'll excuse me I must get back to complaining ad nauseam to strangers about how much I hate a mouse I don't use. Oh wait no I don't.
Every time it's mentioned people come out of the woodwork to complain about "how can I use it while it's charging".
Meanwhile the people that actually use one know that isn't an issue - and rebut the complaints.
A lot of people tend to simply leave the mouse plugged into a cable when using it, even once it's charged. Apple is famous for the image that they would like their products to convey. They don't want people leaving the mouse plugged in because it's convenient or they're unable to act on a month-long warning. They want to force you to use the mouse as it was designed -- wireless.
I'm not saying it's good, I don't have one myself and I plainly don't like the ergonomics of it. I like the look and I think I would be able to work around the port-location constraint, but it just doesn't feel nice to hold.
Pretty to look at, though.
...not.
Not sure it's bad design as much as a design decision. I like the shape of the current MM. It works for my hands and usage. It's also slim enough to make it both a great desktop mouse and travel mouse (I used to have both!). Could Apple keep the exact same design and add a port to one of the sides? Sure, but it remain almost unusable when plugged in and not change much.
So when people complain about the port on the bottom, what they are really complaining about is the overall design of the MM. The want the MM to be thicker and have a port on the front or back, but that's no longer the MM we have. For people who want that mouse, there are plenty out there to chose from.
I’m a long time MM user and have one at every computer I use (work and multiple personal). My first one was one with the AA batteries. Never had a problem with this.
If you have a car, you have to fill it up with gas (or charge the battery) too and you can’t use it while doing that. Similar deal.
But it is such a non-issue to me that I really don’t care that it exists. I also would not care if they made it possible. But as an actual user of multiple of them, it really, truly is a non-issue for me.
My issue is that mine are all lightning and I have fewer and fewer lightning devices, so I’ll have to keep around a lightning cable (regardless of whether I can charge while using it or not). But that was bound to happen.
It's still a shitty design born of hubris.
https://www.logitechg.com/en-ca/products/gaming-mice/pro-x-s...
Yet, when I read forums as I was troubleshooting something, I found multiple posts where someone claims the mouse doesn't work in "wired mode", and multiple people replied saying they only ever use the mouse with a usb cable and never wirelessly so surely something is wrong, leading to lots of confusion and returned mouses. In reality, the mouse can only work when plugged in if it is also paired as a wireless device.
If you think about it, the design choice to support charging only and not data makes some sense. Having a wired and wireless mode may confuse users if they don't have a Logitech driver installed that ensures settings are persistent across both modes. Apple's design is good from this point of view, it only works wirelessly and there is no design language that suggests it has a wired mode.
Logitech gaming mouses do have wired and wireless modes, but I think they generally do not have bluetooth, so presumably the mouse and/or its driver can more easily take care of persistent settings between modes by not supporting bluetooth which is constrained to support certain features.
All that being said, I believe the main reason for the port being on the bottom of Magic Mouse was simply to avoid cost of retooling for manufacturing when they switched from AA batteries to a non-removable chargeable battery.
I believe (unfounded) originally it was made for asthetic reasons, as to not interrupt the sushi shape, and that not being able to use it while charging was not considered to be that much of a downside. And then since then Apple just hasn't bothered spending engineering effort on 'fixing' that design decision ever since.
The mouse port thing is like a canary in the coal mine, betraying the people who just like taking shots at Apple, but generally are very ill informed. I think Apple should keep the port on the bottom purely so we can get the shortcut to discarding people's opinions when they hoist it up to concern troll.
For actual Apple Mouse users, charging is just the least concerning thing imaginable. The battery lasts an absolute eternity. I'm using one right now that I've had for at least five or so years and I charge it once in forever, it charges super quickly, and it's just not a factor in my life at all.
So when I get the "low battery warning" on the desktop MM, I put it on charge and use the other one for an hour while it recharges.
Then I bought an iMac and the 2nd MM came with it.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not that unusual.
We're discussing in this context. I still stand by the claim that there are probably around zero people on the planet that bought a second MM specifically to use it while the other one is charging.
I'm not doubting that there exists a group of people that happen to have acquired two MMs, however that came to be.
You cannot reasonably make this assertion and expect that it's true. I mean, you outed yourself right there as someone not capable of a reasonable discussion. Sort of a "canary in a coal mine" of your own.
I have never once had my Logitech mice run out of batter, not once, not ever. It charges as I use it. I'll take that all day long over the "magic mouse" with a charging port underneath so you can't even use the thing if it runs out of battery an an inopportune moment. But sure, go through the mental gymnastics of excusing a really bad design by Apple because you're an obvious fanboy.
>I have never once had my Logitech mice run out of batter, not once, not ever.
Okay?
I have never, ever had my magic mouse run out of battery, or even come close. Again, you have zero idea what you're talking about. You cannot comprehend how long the battery lasts, or how ridiculously quickly it charges. The time to make a cup of coffee is days of usage.
It is never actual Magic Mouse users complaining about this. Ever. It's always the peanut gallery leaving dumb comments.
Like, why in the world did you click into a story about new Apple products to yap about how you would never buy Apple products. Bizarre. I'm not a "fan boy" for the reality that the magic mouse is actually perfectly fine, and it doesn't make me a fan boy to point out the peanut gallery that appears in every single Apple store with uninformed, often absurd takes.
Cheers! Hope you have a great day.
Lol, no, someone just replied to you saying that they do this.
Okay?
>I have never, ever had my magic mouse run out of battery, or even come close.
The person that replied to you that they do this, has in fact had their magic mouse run out of battery, and they used the second one while the first one charges.
You're just wrong.
This conversation is boring and you're making assertions that aren't valid.
Have the day you deserve.
Ignoring that I was clearly being rhetorical, they specifically note that they bought two mice because they have two Macs. The "I let one die when at home and use the other" is a consequence of that choice, not the other way around. This is super clear.
You literally, directly claimed that Apple is making a monetary choice to try to force people to buy second mice for when one dies. This is...hilarious conjecture, to put it politely.
>This conversation is boring and you're making assertions that aren't valid.
It is. The tiring noise of the Apple haters who define their personality by being Apple haters and run into every Apple conversation to make it known remains extremely boring.
Consider that the "fanboys" simply care about something other than you do. There was a time in my life when I had probably very similar preferences as you, but life changes.
Ideally the on/off switch would not control both the power and BT.
I think it's roughly the right size for my child, aged six. I used it for about ten minutes so I could order a Logitech MX Master 3S for Mac.
Of all the annoying things Apple does, this pushes me the hardest.
Ergonimics, the polling rate, the way the glass gets greasy, the scratchy hard plastic on the bottom.
Truly, inferior to the Logitech MX Master in all ways except looks. (which is subjective).
But it takes literally a few seconds to get a days worth of charge out of the mouse, Apple clearly don't want you to leave it plugged in to use as a wired mouse: why? idk, because they hate choice, or perhaps its because they know it would overcharge the battery and bulge, or perhaps even still, people would get weird expectations about "wired being better for latency" despite the mouse not using the data connections on the wire.
We'll never know. But the charging on the bottom is such a non-issue in reality that it makes me wonder if anyone actually owned that mouse, or they just think it looks funny. Personally, I'd rather they fix the other issues with the mouse, the charging was legitimately never an issue.
I have personally been in meeting where my boss forgot to charge her magic mouse and we had to wait two minutes for her to open the stuff we needed to discuss. It happens.
But they've done incremental updates to the design since, they could have easily fixed that by now.
As I said, you rarely needed to remember to charge it. Till you would in the midst of something.
Anyway, I never liked the MM so when I had my iMac I bought a magic trackpad (which you could charge while using, small bonus).
To me the plug placement was an inconvenience, regardless of how invisible it is to you.
On top of that, it never charged in few seconds after years of use, mine would take longer just to connect to the iMac again.
I was glad to buy magic trackpad I could leave connected 24/7 and never think about it (also I liked it much more than the MM in general).
It lasted so long, even after the warning, that I never got any urgency.
People think it will be a problem, so make ignorant commentary about it being idiotic, yet in practice it's fine, and not the worst aspect of a terrible mouse.
Plugging in for a few seconds to get a days worth of charge is a stupid thing to actually require or consider normal.
I also want to use my mouse tomorrow, and even the next day, and do so without having to plan ahead "today I will leave my mouse plugged in overnight because I can tell by clairvoyance that it is about to run out" or "I have been tracking the calender like a menstrual cycle and it's time, tonight is the night!" or "I have set up a sheduled alarm on my wonderful Apple Watch to remind me to go look at the settings somewhere to check the mouse battery level and see if it's time to charge tonight"...
And if you don't plan, then you have a few choices, charge for a minute and have to do it again without warning in 2 days, a constant stream of unplanned forced trips to the coffee maker, or just charge for 30 seconds every single day as a part of your routine, or stop and wait for a full charge on the spot for however long that is, or the worst of both worlds, get on with your day by charging for a minute now, and then don't fail to remember to plug it back in before leaving several hours of busy-ness later, which you absolutely will of course.
There is no version of any of that that is remotely convenient or sensible, and certainly not an upgrade from every other mouse in the world. There is no version of this that isn't patently ridiculous. You can work around it and tolerate it because it's not as bad as having to dig ditches for a living. If there was something about mice that the tech just didn't exist for it to work any other way, then sure it's possible to live with, because humans are adaptable. But it's not good, and it's not better than the already norm for $2 mice sice 20 years ago.
It's baffling weird to even try.
If you disable all notifications and it really runs out, waiting 10 seconds for it to charge is... fine...
I doubt you're using a wired mouse, and most wired mice are actually worse at charging than the magic mouse- the only difference is that you can use them while plugged in, so it's not as annoying that they charge so slow and use more power.
Ultimately it comes down to effective utility, people harping on about the placement of the charging cable without respect to the actual usability of the device holistically have quite literally missed the forest for the trees.
Like I said, theres plenty of reasons to dislike the mouse, but this ranks among the lowest and honestly the weird hate-boner for that decision just makes people look like they don't know what they're talking about to me.
however i will say three years in, either a software update or hardware issue is now killing the battery and i have to charge it every week or two and that sucks
salty that i now have airpod pros, an iphone 13, and the magic keyboard and mouse all with their dumb lightning bolt or whatever it's called. going to have to rebuy all this to forever rid myself of non-usb-c cables but at least in 2024 it's finally happened as an option
Each of those times you walked away, did you ever try plugging it in, counting to ten and then continuing to use it afterwards? That's what I used to do.
I use a trackpad now though.
It's probably just Apple's usual arrogance. They could have easily designed the mouse so that you can keep using it while it's charging, but the designer chose otherwise. And because this is a minor enough issue, Apple doesn't have to fix it and admit that they were wrong.
That thing charges annoyingly slowly and uses battery way faster than reasonable.
That's quite contrary to my experience, granted I've only used two magic mice, one for 2 years in 2014-16, and another from 2020-2023.
It's possible that your experience is much more common though!
I have had and used both and the first version was MUCH less annoying. Swapping is an instant activity and back to business; remember to put it to charge later when you get a message is an unnecessary mental load and unrealistic expectation from the user, the technology is supposed to work for the user not the other way around. The fast-charging bullshit everyone talks about is just displacement of the problem, the next day you will get another interruption and mental load to remember to charge.
On top of that, the battery life is actually terrible, it's crazy how little useful life you get from it considering how heavy it is and how terrible the sensor is.
Personally, I really like the ability to "free scroll" in all direction on the surface and the 2-3 finger swipes but it's really not worth the hassle.
People boast about Apple trackpads being good but as far as I'm concerned, they don't have much choice considering that's the only thing they seem to be able to work out ok. Nobody on PCs wants to use trackpads, it makes no sense compared to the performance of a mouse and gestures are unreliable compared to mouse buttons/keyboard shortcuts/macro keys.
it annoys everyone, it's a dumb design, you get a message from your Mac telling you that the mouse has no charge and suddenly you can't work anymore for a few minutes, it's idiotic, plain and simple
You don't like the mouse, that's fine, I also don't like the mouse.
But unless you've actually used the mouse for an extended period: I don't think you understood the point that you:
A) don't need it plugged in constantly
and
B) if you charge it for a handful of seconds it lasts the rest of the day, meaning you don't actually have to stop working.
If I get the warning the mouse is getting low on charge I just plug it in, go grab a drink or use the bathroom, and by the time I get back it's good for the rest of the day.
Then all I have to do is remember to plug it in overnight and it'll be good for months. YMMV.
The product is already several years old after all (release date 2017)
Or bypass the idea of the patent altogether by making their mouse charge wirelessly and then releasing a giant wireless charger that happens to work pretty well as a mouse pad later.
Option 2 is a great way to land in court. It's one thing to steal IP from a tiny company or individual but Logitech can afford lawyers.
I've not measured it, but I could believe there is probably quite a bit of repeated vertical and sideways stress on a wired mouse's cable where it joins to the mouse body.
To be fair though, I've seen multiple computer labs with new iMacs and old wired keyboards and mice (because they don't want them "going missing" or switching places).
Apparently, something internal to how the OS handles mouse scrolling was changed, and only the Magic Mouse gets a proper scrolling experience using built-in drivers. It is possible to fix this, but only with custom software (either drivers for specific mice or general tools for all mice).
for it to be any smoother, there would need to be some artificial smoothing of the scroll wheel input. and i'd rather not have that.
For example, when using the wired Mighty Mouse, the same motion of my finger will sometimes scroll a couple lines and sometimes scroll the entire page or not scroll at all. The same mouse plugged into Windows does not exhibit this problem.
This is not normal and you're possibly facing a bug. I have a Master 3S and mine scrolls exactly the same distance with every click of the wheel.
I don't have any Logitech mice anymore, but maybe they've learned how to speak to Macs or worked with Apple to make them better. I had Logitech mice in the past, ca. 2-3 years ago, and they had the same problems then. I did notice that plugging in a non-Apple mouse results in a "Setup Your Keyboard" prompt, which I just quit out of (it's not a keyboard...), but maybe that would install a driver if I followed through? Though, the Mighty Mouse is an Apple mouse, and it still sucks on macOS but not on Windows.
And yes, fixing this requires custom software.
It is not my understanding that Apple has any responsibility for ensuring equal access and capabilities for third-party accessories on their own weird, proprietary, invented-in-house computing systems.
Therefore, it is also not my understanding that they can be negligent on these matters.
This is not true. Again, I have a Master 3S and I have natively, through macOS settings, bound Mouse 4 and 5 to mission control.
The DRAM makers must love AI, low end iPhones increase RAM 33% (6GB -> 8GB), low end iMacs go from 8GB to 16GB.
I've paid €200 for 128GB RAM in my PC. How much does Apple charge for 128GB of memory?
There's a ton of ram types with varying performance levels, and in apple's case it's RAM with direct and performant access from the graphics card (unified memory).
Apple's marketing department would be happy for you to think otherwise, but the "secret sauce" of their high memory bandwidth is completely due to having more memory channels built into the SoC than a standard x86 CPU.
Of course MS overcharges on upgrades as well... because they can. Can it really have anything to do with cost, though? I wouldn't be surprised that the slotted RAM in laptops that support it and which Lenovo/Dell/etc. sell pretty cheap ir as or more expensive than the "Apple Magic Unified Max Marketing RAM" wholesale?
The cost to Apple for going from 16GB to 32GB is less than $40. So of course it's priced at $400.
On the other hand, they are limited in capacity. It is a trade off, it is silly to pretend they are just limiting memory capacity out of the vileness of their hearts or something.
No, it's obviously because they can upcharge on upgrades? That's just market segmentation. I doubt it can have much to do with technical limitations or actual costs (the the difference the wholesale price between 8GB and 16GB is relatively marginal).
> I think it might not be possible to put together a system
No, but you can get a Lunar Lake laptop with comparable bandwidth. Dell is also "only" half as "greedy" as Apple or MS, e.g. 16 GB -> 32 GB is only $200 instead of $400.
No, but their marketing department would like you to think so.
> It is silly to pretend they are just limiting memory capacity out of the vileness of their hearts or something.
They are limiting memory capacity and charging you 8x-10x reasonable retail price for upgrades, so that their profit margins stay high. Whether or not that's vile is something I leave to you to decide.
Can you link to a teardown that finds RAM somewhere other than the CPU package?
Or were you in too much of a hurry to notice that the comment you replied to didn't make the common mistake of claiming the RAM is on-die not just on-package?
I think I was thrown off by your use of the term "inside," vs other terms like "on" or "part of," which led me to believe you were asking about the memory being part of the SoC proper. If that's not what you meant, I apologize.
The memory consists of standard DDR4/5 memory chips, soldered on a PCB, directly next to the M-series SoC. So my point was that while it is likely faster than any memory you could get on a standard consumer PC, it's not in any way special (read: more expensive) for Apple to source or assemble.
Side point: I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare most Macs to consumer PC hardware, given the price differentials involved.
I'd love that, seems like a fantastic deal. I assume it's DDR4, though? Which makes it an even more apples to oranges comparison.
However if we're being fair Dell seems to be charging about 50% less (and Lenovo 75% at least for some models) for soldered LPDDR5X upgrades than Apple and Lunar Lake seems to have comparable bandwidth
Only for the bundled peripherals, it seems. The Apple Store now only lists the full-size Lightning keyboard without Touch ID in white, which is even worse than before when you could get various permutations of tenkeyless, Touch ID, and black.
I mean they claim:
> Compared to the most popular 24-inch all-in-one PC with the latest Intel Core 7 processor, the new iMac is up to 4.5x faster.1
But is that really true if your "ultrafast" Mac grinds to a halt when you have a couple of Electron apps and a browser open at the same time? Naturally users who bought the base model because they didn't really understood the implications would just conclude that macOS is slow and unstable compared to Windows?
The 8GB models could easily handle this kind of load.
The OS alone takes 2GB or more (200MB just for spotlight iirc), a bit is used for graphics, and once you add a bunch of browser tabs and windows you're easily in a situation where RAM usage is permanently above 80%. You don't feel it as quickly on the M1 but by the time you notice lags it's already swapping 15GB, sometimes for no apparent reason.
I still don't quite get it, on the 16GB Macbook I feel like I can do much more without exceeding 8GB usage.
https://help.procreate.com/articles/YB7CjQ-maximum-layer-lim...