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Comment by jamboca | Hacker News Reader

I will add my experience. I graduated with a CS degree from a well known state school a few months ago, I have been applying to so many jobs I lost count, but after being ghosted to even entry level jobs I have pretty much given up on my CS dreams… why should I basically work myself to death for a field that seems like it doesn’t even care about me? Note I had two internship-style experiences while in school, making up the significant portion of my resume. I’m happier working at a restaurant and enjoying my free time for the moment, touching computers on the side but more importantly pursuing my non-computer interests. This won’t work forever as I plan to have children but for now I am existing and happy doing other things. and i am putting a lot of my free time in to convicing my peers still in school that their degree won’t be worth sh!t when they graduate

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Unsolicited advice: Try to get someone to review your resume and other materials (grades, cover letters, recommendation letters, official documents, etc). Ideally by someone like a recruiter, the schools career center if there is one, or even just a personal friend. Preferably someone with recent experience.

No judgement, but you might be missing something or doing something "wrong" without knowing it. Being ghosted absolutely everywhere sounds strange regardless of how the market is doing. CS as a field is not dead yet.

As for the field not caring about you: nobody owes you anything. That doesn't mean you should just roll over and give up. And it also doesn't mean you should take shit from abusive managers "working you to death". There are good people and companies out there, but you need to go out and find them. I work only 4 days a week, prioritize my family, and my employer accepts that.

Compared to so many other jobs CS is still a lot better than other options and will continue to be viable for a long time. You're absolutely not too late.

Maybe stop applying and start working at headhunters that look to place you even for temporary work? That's how I started back in 2010. I'd work for a place for a few months and if they liked me, I was given a position. When I worked for a temp place when I first started off, I worked like 7 jobs until I was offered a position. When I matured to headhunters, every position I was placed I was made full-time.

In my current job was through an agency where I was placed on a mandatory probation period where I'd need to have my contract renewed yearly, get hired or be terminated. The only thing that sucks is that during this period, you're an employee of the headhunters so none of the benefits of the company you're working at apply to you.

In regard to, "doesn't even care about me", that's reality. Though there are some companies and individuals that do care, the vast majority don't. Right now, CS is one of the few fields paying over 100k for some entry level positions AFAIK.

It sounds like you're a woman and I commend you for thinking about children. Personally, my recommendation is to stick it out, possibly invest in a bootcamp or follow thought leaders or tech tool creators and learn niche or cutting edge skills. Getting certifications can help as well. Degrees help you get past the gatekeepers and bootcamps help you get some attention. I've always seen degrees as proving you can stick with something. And I see bootcamps as proving you can stick with something specific that allows you to provide immediate value. But personally, I believe experience is the best teacher and the best way to get it is to take anything. I loved taking 2 months gigs. Fail hard, then try again. If you're eager to learn, you'll be surprised how much you can process in 2 months time and if you can treat every gig as an opportunity to learn something new, 2 years can bring a lot of experience.

I worked in IT for a number of years without a degree, then went back to school. I had a discussion with some CS major seniors around 2011, who tended to be the more promising half of the class - I started talking about software version control. "What's that?" they said. "You know, like git or perforce or cvs" I said. "Git? What's that?" I hadn't even been programming before college, I was sliding rack mount servers into server racks and the like. I guess internships are where students would learn things like that, or independently.

On the other hand, I've worked with interns who were pretty good. One I knew had done a lot of side projects while going to school. He is now making about $300k TC, 3.5 years after his internship.

In the climate today, internships are the road to a job. People intern at a company between sophomore and junior year, and then another one between junior and senior year, and hope they have offers from at least one of the two on graduation (plus maybe a few more they applied to separately).

The IT job market has been tight since the end of 2022. I don't know what position someone who is ready is in, but just doing classes probably isn't enough. I tended to learn something in a semester, and then apply it after. Like I learned Java one semester, and during the semester started fixing bugs for a free software project that was online. Then I had a small program I wanted, and did it in Java. Similar with C++, computer graphics and other things - I learned it during the semester, then applied it during summer or winter break on little projects.

On a wider level, I wouldn't disagree the managers and owners of the field can make you work to death without caring about you and the like. On an individual level though, if people want to break in they need to do the right things, know the right things, and get a lucky break. I can say everyone I know who kept at it eventually got a break, but it can take longer than they wanted it to. Also, from late 2022 until now has not been a great time for new talent.

> On the other hand...

Stories like this remind me what a harsh reality college was. People like that knew college was worthless and were just attending to pass the time and get their degree. They came with the skillset to get a job from day one out of high school. Basically these types of kids can join a team, and be completely self sufficient within days, taking complete ownership of everything they touch.

I've had the privilege to work with 1 of these kids and it's amazing to watch. You give them little and they do a lot. I didn't read the article but my issue with some new gen ppl is those who make it without any struggles, say, they graduate and immediately get a job, they get really arrogant and refuse guidance or feedback. They write shit code that never looks at the bigger picture and get upset if they don't get praised.

> The IT job market has been tight since the end of 2022

Trump messing with H1-B visas really helped raise wages and mobility IMO.

not everyone graduates into a strong job market, but tides can change. If I were in your shoes I would make sure to do some coding/ get some certifications on the side of my restaurant gig

Yeah - I find it 'odd' that people think they should be able to get a job in a month or with only sending out 20 resumes...Things have been so good the last 10+ years, that seems to be the 'new normal' and now its tightened up again, people are shocked.

I always figure 3-6 months to find a good position, probably because I started in the 80s and remember all the tight job markets between then and now. For me, 3-6 months seemed to be 'normal'.

I guess its a huge shock when all you've seen are the 'good times', but all fields/careers go thru boom-bust cycles. I seem to recall hearing we had a glut of lawyers and new grads couldn't find work.

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